mobil 1 15 50
04-22-2008, 10:43 AM
#93
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06-03-2008, 06:06 AM
#94
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BB. I did not imply that you are trying to sell me any type of oil. However your reference clearly points to the bandwagon for the mineral stuff. As I said I do not doubt your field experience, my issue is that top mechanics point equally to Mobil 1 15-50 for my aircooled 993 engine. Furthermore GT3's in general have different lubrication needs than my engine so what is good for these engines may not be necessarily good for mine. Finally the factory raced the 964/993 engines solely with Mobil 1 and factory filled our engines with Mobil 1. Clearly back then the formulation may have been "right" ,on the same token I dont see them racing with "brad pen" or "swepco" back then or now!
Oil Engineers who certainly know much more than you and me, like Doug, also understand much better the chemistry as a whole of the new formulations. I cannot even comprehend how these chemicals react with each other and I'm called to believe that the ZDDP is the sole savior of my engine's health... Interestingly this site of another "expert" :http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html says about using diesel oil and I quote:
. Please read here about the engine loosing compression!!!
Also read about mineral oils, synthetics, ZDDP's etc...
So pardon me if I dont choose to jump on the band wagon and stick with what I'm told by people I trust...
Oil Engineers who certainly know much more than you and me, like Doug, also understand much better the chemistry as a whole of the new formulations. I cannot even comprehend how these chemicals react with each other and I'm called to believe that the ZDDP is the sole savior of my engine's health... Interestingly this site of another "expert" :http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html says about using diesel oil and I quote:
. Please read here about the engine loosing compression!!!
Also read about mineral oils, synthetics, ZDDP's etc...
So pardon me if I dont choose to jump on the band wagon and stick with what I'm told by people I trust...
06-03-2008, 09:05 AM
#95
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Well, in lieu of Mobil 1 15w50, if Brad Penn or Swepco doesn't cut it, Motul 300V is probably the best syn with similar formulation to the Brad Penn as far as Zn/P and detergents used.
06-03-2008, 09:29 AM
#96
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Charles, what is your opinion on Royal Purple 15W40? My shop wants to use it for a 993TT. Thanks!
06-03-2008, 07:01 PM
#97
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Hi,
333pg333 - You said this;
"Doug managed a fleet of trucks before he retired. He was not an oil engineer as much as he'd like you to believe this. His prime reason for use of the oils that he recommends is more fuel economy based."
This factually untrue statement has nothing to do with this Thread!
One fact however, I retired in 2004 for whatever that denotes!!
One wonders how comments designed to denigrate a Poster helps on such a Forum - especially when shared knowledge and experience is what it is all about.
My comments on lubricants in here stand!
Owning a very successful Interstate and Local Trucking and Road Transport Consulting business for nearly 20 years teaches the practitioner much. Being a Technical consultant for many of Australia's largest Trucking Fleets does broaden one's mind too. Working for Chevron-Caltex in a Technical role for some years and with Castrol, Shell and Mobil in the development of lubricants (especially synthetic lubricants) over 30 years helps as well!
M1 15W-50 in either version continues to perform at a level beyond many of the lubricants being promoted on here!
I do NOT work for any oil Company or have any interest in selling or promoting any Brand of lubricant.
I use the best from Shell, Castrol and Mobil lubricant ranges in my vehicles
333pg333 - You said this;
"Doug managed a fleet of trucks before he retired. He was not an oil engineer as much as he'd like you to believe this. His prime reason for use of the oils that he recommends is more fuel economy based."
This factually untrue statement has nothing to do with this Thread!
One fact however, I retired in 2004 for whatever that denotes!!
One wonders how comments designed to denigrate a Poster helps on such a Forum - especially when shared knowledge and experience is what it is all about.
My comments on lubricants in here stand!
Owning a very successful Interstate and Local Trucking and Road Transport Consulting business for nearly 20 years teaches the practitioner much. Being a Technical consultant for many of Australia's largest Trucking Fleets does broaden one's mind too. Working for Chevron-Caltex in a Technical role for some years and with Castrol, Shell and Mobil in the development of lubricants (especially synthetic lubricants) over 30 years helps as well!
M1 15W-50 in either version continues to perform at a level beyond many of the lubricants being promoted on here!
I do NOT work for any oil Company or have any interest in selling or promoting any Brand of lubricant.
I use the best from Shell, Castrol and Mobil lubricant ranges in my vehicles
06-03-2008, 08:16 PM
#98
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Oil analysis
Hi,
333pg333 - You said this;
"Doug managed a fleet of trucks before he retired. He was not an oil engineer as much as he'd like you to believe this. His prime reason for use of the oils that he recommends is more fuel economy based."
This factually untrue statement has nothing to do with this Thread!
One fact however, I retired in 2004 for whatever that denotes!!
One wonders how comments designed to denigrate a Poster helps on such a Forum - especially when shared knowledge and experience is what it is all about.
My comments on lubricants in here stand!
Owning a very successful Interstate and Local Trucking and Road Transport Consulting business for nearly 20 years teaches the practitioner much. Being a Technical consultant for many of Australia's largest Trucking Fleets does broaden one's mind too. Working for Chevron-Caltex in a Technical role for some years and with Castrol, Shell and Mobil in the development of lubricants (especially synthetic lubricants) over 30 years helps as well!
M1 15W-50 in either version continues to perform at a level beyond many of the lubricants being promoted on here!
I do NOT work for any oil Company or have any interest in selling or promoting any Brand of lubricant.
I use the best from Shell, Castrol and Mobil lubricant ranges in my vehicles
333pg333 - You said this;
"Doug managed a fleet of trucks before he retired. He was not an oil engineer as much as he'd like you to believe this. His prime reason for use of the oils that he recommends is more fuel economy based."
This factually untrue statement has nothing to do with this Thread!
One fact however, I retired in 2004 for whatever that denotes!!
One wonders how comments designed to denigrate a Poster helps on such a Forum - especially when shared knowledge and experience is what it is all about.
My comments on lubricants in here stand!
Owning a very successful Interstate and Local Trucking and Road Transport Consulting business for nearly 20 years teaches the practitioner much. Being a Technical consultant for many of Australia's largest Trucking Fleets does broaden one's mind too. Working for Chevron-Caltex in a Technical role for some years and with Castrol, Shell and Mobil in the development of lubricants (especially synthetic lubricants) over 30 years helps as well!
M1 15W-50 in either version continues to perform at a level beyond many of the lubricants being promoted on here!
I do NOT work for any oil Company or have any interest in selling or promoting any Brand of lubricant.
I use the best from Shell, Castrol and Mobil lubricant ranges in my vehicles
You mention that Mobil 1 continues to outperform many of the oils mentioned in this thread. I've been a big M1 fan for some time. Would you have any oil analyes for us to look at with respect to our cars? I know I would love to see some actual data and it might help to satisfy the naysayers. Just a thought.
Cheers,
Doug
06-03-2008, 08:39 PM
#99
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You guys can go over to the Mobil 1 website and there is published info including additive levels.
Including Porsche approved listed oils.. I would stick with a Mobil 1 synthetic before making a switch to a un-approved dino or semi-synthetic oil on the turbo engine. If you guys want to make a switch >>switch over to Motul 300V not Brad Penn..
Charles there is a large difference between the two oils as how they are manufactured (Motul vs Brad Penn) blended, base stock and testing. If Brad Penn want's recognition they can pay to have Porsche, MB, Volkswagen approved them.
Including Porsche approved listed oils.. I would stick with a Mobil 1 synthetic before making a switch to a un-approved dino or semi-synthetic oil on the turbo engine. If you guys want to make a switch >>switch over to Motul 300V not Brad Penn..
Charles there is a large difference between the two oils as how they are manufactured (Motul vs Brad Penn) blended, base stock and testing. If Brad Penn want's recognition they can pay to have Porsche, MB, Volkswagen approved them.
06-03-2008, 09:43 PM
#101
Rennlist Member
Just because an oil is approved through sequences developed for the newer engines, that doesn't mean that they will perform in the older ones. I don't have any problem using a Porsche approved oil in a new Porsche. Never have.
The Motul I recommend, the 300V (depending on viscosity, it's an SH or SJ rated product), is not an approved oil either. Approval means just that, that oil manufacturer paid for that distinction, as you said.
I have years of experience with the Brad Penn Racing in all kinds of applications along with teardowns and UOAs that go with the evidence supporting how well the product performs, as do other shops who have made the switch. Same goes with Swepco; many shops too have found that Swepco 306 is just as good as the older synthetics that were tried and true. I have used Motul in my newer cars for years and have similar results there too.
We even went as far as to build spintrons to do controled testing years ago, before this whole debacle unfolded (when the API SL rating went into effect as we saw early stages of the problem even then in engines running over 200# spring pressure over the nose). Northwestern University currently has my spintron at their engineering school studying and proposing changes to improve its design in a project we're sponsoring.
As with anything, it takes time (years and miles), to know for sure how a particular lubricant will perform. With all the reformulations that have taken place, you can't just blindly have faith in a lubricant, even if you have decades of experience and faith in a product. When I see the proof in the form real world testing, that's when I will know that I can trust some of the lubricants in question.
And as to those who say I'm biased towards one brand because I sell oil, if you take a look, I carry Mobil, Motul, Brad Penn, and Swepco, and only products I have personally tested and run. My intentions of selling oil is to recoup some of the cost of testing to allow for further and continued testing. On average, I'm a bit more expensive, since I'm not a huge wholeseller getting it truckloads at a time. I appreciate those who do buy with the knowledge that they are helping to support further testing.
Real world testing is in the hands of every owner - do used oil analysis on a regular basis.
The Motul I recommend, the 300V (depending on viscosity, it's an SH or SJ rated product), is not an approved oil either. Approval means just that, that oil manufacturer paid for that distinction, as you said.
I have years of experience with the Brad Penn Racing in all kinds of applications along with teardowns and UOAs that go with the evidence supporting how well the product performs, as do other shops who have made the switch. Same goes with Swepco; many shops too have found that Swepco 306 is just as good as the older synthetics that were tried and true. I have used Motul in my newer cars for years and have similar results there too.
We even went as far as to build spintrons to do controled testing years ago, before this whole debacle unfolded (when the API SL rating went into effect as we saw early stages of the problem even then in engines running over 200# spring pressure over the nose). Northwestern University currently has my spintron at their engineering school studying and proposing changes to improve its design in a project we're sponsoring.
As with anything, it takes time (years and miles), to know for sure how a particular lubricant will perform. With all the reformulations that have taken place, you can't just blindly have faith in a lubricant, even if you have decades of experience and faith in a product. When I see the proof in the form real world testing, that's when I will know that I can trust some of the lubricants in question.
And as to those who say I'm biased towards one brand because I sell oil, if you take a look, I carry Mobil, Motul, Brad Penn, and Swepco, and only products I have personally tested and run. My intentions of selling oil is to recoup some of the cost of testing to allow for further and continued testing. On average, I'm a bit more expensive, since I'm not a huge wholeseller getting it truckloads at a time. I appreciate those who do buy with the knowledge that they are helping to support further testing.
Real world testing is in the hands of every owner - do used oil analysis on a regular basis.
06-03-2008, 10:32 PM
#102
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There have been a few of us that have used Kendall in the 70's. It was a decent oil. There have been alot of years to perfect the science. However, like I have said, on the turbo engines running a non-synthetic or dino oil will leed to more issues like premature turbocharger failures. The non-synthetic oils can not withstand the high heat.
I have seen my share of bearing failures and piston skirt wear over the years. I see turbocharger turbine seal failures and bearing failures everyday. I can smell the burnt oil and pinpoint the lack of running a full synthetic oil with many of the failures.
I have seen my share of bearing failures and piston skirt wear over the years. I see turbocharger turbine seal failures and bearing failures everyday. I can smell the burnt oil and pinpoint the lack of running a full synthetic oil with many of the failures.
