red993tt

Can a street legal 993 TT beat a street legal 996 TT in a tuner's shootout. I am sure this has a been a topic of discussion in the past. If so can someone fill me in.

ca993twin

Its my understanding that the 996 has far superior heads (dohc vs sohc, 4 valves vs 2 valves), and has a great advantage for a tuner. If your hypothetical shootout is on a road course, the 996 also has better aerodynamics, a stiffer chassis, and improved suspension. If your hypothetical shootout considers looks, then the 993 wins.

JPschnitzer

Stock to stock, with equal drivers, 996 TT would probably edge it out. But tuned, and tricked out....Too many variables to know....I just chipped mine, and according to Evo I am putting out 550hp.

Peter S 993tt

Untrue - the 996tt actually dials back power because of the AWD to prevent screwing up the transmission input shaft. Also - PSM cannot be completely disabled on the 996tt. In the hands of a professional - the 993tt stock will beat a stock 996tt.

ca993twin

His question was about "tuner shootout" with "street legal" (not stock) cars. The 996 can be tuned for more HP than a 993... I forgot to mention the water cooling which can aid in cooling and aid in resisting detonation... leading to the ability to handle more boost in the 996TT. JP is probably correct about the variables... how "much" tuning (what sort of lifespan) would be allowed? Very hypothetical question with lots of variables.

red993tt

My question was not inteneded to compare the 993tt with the 996tt. Or asking onwers how they feel about these cars.
What I am asking is can the best TUNED 993tt beat the best TUNED 996TT (both street legal) in a tuners shoot out??? I am sure shoot out with these two cars have done before, if so, please fill me in.

JPschnitzer

Peter S, Dude, check your facts. If we are talking about the Nurburgring, which is the ultimate test track for all German high-performance cars, the FACTS are this: (As published by Sportauto)

993 Turbo tested 3/97 Time: 8:12
996 Turbo tested 6/00 Time: 7:56

and for comparison

A Carrera GT lapped at 7:32

JJayB

Lets compare Pikes Peak. Jeff Zwart is 20 seconds faster in a 993tt than a 996turbo. Better allwheel drive in the 993.

pole position

Define shootout : chassis dyno,1/4 mile ,some brake slamming and a small roadcourse ? How do you define street legal , cats or no cats, racegas or pump , stereo or stripped ? State of the art testing equipment like Sport-Auto or shoestring US mag ? I don't think you are getting the black and white answer you are looking for and the biggest drawback for the aircooled engine will be heat.

IMO it is best to look at production based race cars to get a idea what a unlimited all out speed/tech budget can do and compare the Alzen 996tt with a 993GT2 EVO .
The newer car wins that comparison hands down because IMO technology always goes forwards not backwards.

For comparison you should also look into the German tuner Grand Prix by Sport Auto ( attendance 17000!). The 2005 open class Grand Prix was won by the EDO comp 996 GT2 with a time of 1.07.757 in Hockenheim. The Enco 996tt came in 6th (1.14.416) and the CC 993 tt came in 7th place (1.14.879)

fc-racer

It's impossible to know from what you wrote above what the conditions, etc. were that he drove under in each car. We don't even know if they are from the same class or the same day. For what it's worth, I've been +/- 10 seconds on a hillclimb in the same car just from conditions from RUN to RUN, forget about different days! Hillclimbs are not just about raw speed, they are often about your ability to cope with changing weather and surface conditions, not to mention how your car changes in relations to the air density.

I don't think the original question can be answered easily because if money were no object, both cars would probably end up at some physical limitation of tires or some mechanical component that money cannot improve beyond that point.

JJayB

For comparison you should also look into the German Grand Prix by Sport Auto ( attendance 17000!). The 2005 open class Grand Prix was won by the EDO comp 996 GT2 with a time of 1.07.757 in Hockenheim. The Enco 996tt came in 6th (1.14.416) and the CC 993 tt came in 7th place (1.14.879)

Better funded teams run newer equipment. I agree technology usually wins out in the later model cars. Back to the question; Can a well moded 993tt street legal beat a 996tt.
Thats what bench racing is all about. I like the 993tt as it has a race proven pedigree, not so for the 996tt. If some well heeled rennlister would underwrite my parts carnage, I'm sure I can get mine into the 10.s and I can hold my own to any of the magazine tested cars on the road course and braking.

JJayB

Yes conditions are different, even moment by moment. Same class different year, the mountian is still the same and it wasn't snowing either time. 20 seconds is an eternity. And Jeff says the 996tt didn't work and he went back to a 993tt.

Peter S 993tt

JP - With all due respect - if you are going to compare two cars, then they should be compared on the same track on the same day with the same conditions - they weren't even run in the same Millenium!

Red - I still think stock v. stock the 993 is marginally faster.
Now if you are talking tuner shootout - then the 996tt has more potential. Then again, take a993tt, increase it to 3.8 liters, add the water cooled heads from the GT1, raise it to 1.3 bar and run 50% toluene - there's no contest - you'd need an overhaul afterwards, but no contest. Everything has a price, and the price is maintenance/overhaul frequency.

Oh - I forgot to mention - as far as technology going backwards - there was about a decade between the 959 and the 993tt, and only when the 993tt came on the scene was the 959 finally matched.

Greg H.

I think this question on the 996TT forum or 6speedonline would garner quite different responses.

Personally, I would hope that Porsche learned something between 1995 and 2001 about making a car faster.

Greg H.

Kevin

JJB has merit with what he said, on any given day in autosports with Unlimited funds any car can win. On most of the tracks that I see Porsche raced, most drivers dislike the 4 wheel drive, unless you are a rally driver or hill climbing. Personally I like all the Turbo cars.. The 996 GT2 is sleeper fast and can maintain high boost and do many things that the air-cooled brother can't.. At the end of the day if one was to take the same budget, and apply it to both cars, my vote is with the 996TT.. It takes alot of cash and funding to make a 993TT get into the "shootout arena" I have both cars and have helped build a 996TT shootout car. This does not mean that I favor the 996TT over the 993TT, each has it's strong suits. I just look back at the 993TT GT2 EVO car vs a 996GT3RSR with a turbo engine.. Unlimited funds?