Craig T.

How much hp can I add before I upgrade the intercooler?

If I do Kevin's K-16/24 hybrids, ECU, Euro cats, aux oil cooler, and run 100 octane, am I safe with the stock intercooler?

Craig

ttAmerica RoadsterAWD

Oh! Excellent question! ...sorry to post and not have the answer,but I too would like someone in the know to enlighten us...Kevin? TB? K24? Jean? anybody

Jaime

pstoppani

Yes. That is exactly the setup I have and will be taking the car to the track now and then. You don't need 100 octane for normal/daily driving unless you plan to spend a ton of time at redline.

Kevin

Yes, you are safe with the stock intercooler with parameters. The stock cooler does a very good job.

TB993tt

The question is whose/which brand intercooler actually is an upgrade ?

Current answer nobody's, but I would love to be proved wrong

ttAmerica RoadsterAWD

Ok, TB, How about SECAN intercooler? Now that would be an upgrade

TB993tt

I have and continue to rationalise some fairly ridiculous spending on mods, but at $27K US for a SECOND HAND one, the Secan really is out of my scope.

The other thing to remember is the Secan works a MAP system so a whole new intake is needed together with big turbos, and new or heavily modified headers to incorporate the external wastegate for me it would be another $35K US + the Secan to get the 640RShp it can be made to produce in 3.8 guise.

Having thought extensively about doing this upgrade, I decided that the on the road difference it would make would only really be useable above 100mph and I don't spend enough time in Germany to really be able to get VFM.

edpurplett

Hola folks,

I have had a ton of conversations with Todd Knighton on this topic and If I dont; fubar it.. these are kinda his thoughts... Look at the torque curve if you doubt the efficiency of this config ....

He doesn't like to do the 993tt bolt on replacement intercoolers, for his clients... The manifold layout leaves you very little room to do anything. Even his (bolt on)is a minor compromise in the bolt-on form. He prefers to do the layout like on mt 993tt now great flow, great performance, no compromises. He can actually do the whole turbosystem like mine (mechanical parts anyhow) for the $20k and end up with a huge improvement, vs. just a minor improvement with an intercooler...
It's just hard to explain the logic sometimes to people...:-)
The Secan cores he's seen are just simply a tube/fin design like they use. Nice and lightweight, very closely resemble his cores. The only difference is not necessarily in the core itsself, but in the overall design of the intercooler. They are using a 14.5" run through the thing ALA GT2 stuff and the intercooler tucks under the back deck and wraps around the back to a na throttle body. It doesn't work with the standard throttle body arrangement, and if it does, it'll be no better than anything else out there due to the limitation on core run.
He guesses, basically, the layout of the 993tt is not good for performance. That's why their higherpowered systems and the factory racing GT2's changed all that to make good power

Ed

edpurplett

or.. if you're man-woman. (money) enough...DAMN THE TORPEDOES... get the Big Boy rig.... and throw away your MAF and belly up to the world of outlaw inspection stations ;-).... and have a dyno like Jean's.( I think this is similar)... with MAP,,

ame exact rig as mine, I believe, with MAP, 60lb injectors (if memory serves)... 044 F pumps , and some big fans.....

.... and yes I would love to see some temp data logging on the track going back to an old post about intake temps and that elusive 15 degree delta when running big HP.....

and bejeezes.. if anyone wonders why I run Super 60 Garrett's look at the torque differences at 3500 RPM OMG.... on basically identical rigs... can confirm if anyone cares.... but basically turbo differences IMHO..... and yes my guys start to run out of breath at high 6'ks... and are probably getting ready for the barbecue...

oh it's friday.... silly me...

ed

ca993twin

Craig,

Ruf builds fairly mild 490+ hp conversions, and insists on using the stock intercooler. Not everyone agrees with Ruf, but good golly, his stuff really works. I wouldn't worry about an intercooler at your proposed bolt-on power levels.

Woodster

"Ya gotta love that Knighton guy" OMFG !!, look at the torque
of Ed's motor at 4000 RPM !!!!!!!!!!!! Now there is tire twisting/burning
torque.
Love it.
Marty

Kevin

Ed we see the curves but this is about the intercooler?? Where is the data logging that goes with those curves? We want to see the inlet temps.. Are your knock sensors active? Show us the knock counts.. Where is the 91 octane curve?

m42racer

And whats going on with those curves? Is it the dyno or is there something going on in the engine?

Why is the torque curve so up and down. As Kevin suggests, are the knock sensors active?

The overal numbers are Ok, but the curves show up some odd engine behaviour or the dyno is not recording correctly. Is this an engine Dyno? Something is amiss. You shouldn't have a torque curve that goes down then up again. Same for the HP curve. Like to here what possibly is going on here.

Jean

I agree with Kevin Ed, these charts are kind of OT as they don't relate to intercooler efficiency. All the data logs are available BTW.

M42, well I am glad the knock sensors are active! Yes it is an engine dyno of a MAP engine and no, there is nothing wrong with them, the temps, AFRs BSFC and BSAC are all perfect across the range, just the chart scale is too big and detailed. Or they could be fake, which is another possibility..Should have used a chassis dyno instead and show a very nice smooth curve.

JJayB

I think this question comes up every 2 years. For street use your fine. For extended track use over 20 minute sessions, and IMHO, 520 hp seems to be the threshhold where temps start to climb. I've have an intercooler temp gauge with an uprated intercooler. It works fine up to 600 hp on days were the ambient is 95 deg. F. With higher ambient temps, I dial back the boost a little. 100 octane only on track days. Glad to see you back Craig.