How Much HP Before Intercooler Upgrade?
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How Much HP Before Intercooler Upgrade?
How much hp can I add before I upgrade the intercooler?
If I do Kevin's K-16/24 hybrids, ECU, Euro cats, aux oil cooler, and run 100 octane, am I safe with the stock intercooler?
Craig
If I do Kevin's K-16/24 hybrids, ECU, Euro cats, aux oil cooler, and run 100 octane, am I safe with the stock intercooler?
Craig
#3
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Craig Trask
If I do Kevin's K-16/24 hybrids, ECU, Euro cats, aux oil cooler, and run 100 octane, am I safe with the stock intercooler?
Craig
Craig
#5
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Craig Trask
How much hp can I add before I upgrade the intercooler?
If I do Kevin's K-16/24 hybrids, ECU, Euro cats, aux oil cooler, and run 100 octane, am I safe with the stock intercooler?
Craig
If I do Kevin's K-16/24 hybrids, ECU, Euro cats, aux oil cooler, and run 100 octane, am I safe with the stock intercooler?
Craig
Current answer nobody's, but I would love to be proved wrong
#7
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ttAmerica RoadsterAWD
Ok, TB, How about SECAN intercooler? Now that would be an upgrade
The other thing to remember is the Secan works a MAP system so a whole new intake is needed together with big turbos, and new or heavily modified headers to incorporate the external wastegate for me it would be another $35K US + the Secan to get the 640RShp it can be made to produce in 3.8 guise.
Having thought extensively about doing this upgrade, I decided that the on the road difference it would make would only really be useable above 100mph and I don't spend enough time in Germany to really be able to get VFM.
Trending Topics
#8
Hola folks,
I have had a ton of conversations with Todd Knighton on this topic and If I dont; fubar it.. these are kinda his thoughts... Look at the torque curve if you doubt the efficiency of this config ....
He doesn't like to do the 993tt bolt on replacement intercoolers, for his clients... The manifold layout leaves you very little room to do anything. Even his (bolt on)is a minor compromise in the bolt-on form. He prefers to do the layout like on mt 993tt now great flow, great performance, no compromises. He can actually do the whole turbosystem like mine (mechanical parts anyhow) for the $20k and end up with a huge improvement, vs. just a minor improvement with an intercooler...
It's just hard to explain the logic sometimes to people...:-)
The Secan cores he's seen are just simply a tube/fin design like they use. Nice and lightweight, very closely resemble his cores. The only difference is not necessarily in the core itsself, but in the overall design of the intercooler. They are using a 14.5" run through the thing ALA GT2 stuff and the intercooler tucks under the back deck and wraps around the back to a na throttle body. It doesn't work with the standard throttle body arrangement, and if it does, it'll be no better than anything else out there due to the limitation on core run.
He guesses, basically, the layout of the 993tt is not good for performance. That's why their higherpowered systems and the factory racing GT2's changed all that to make good power
Ed
I have had a ton of conversations with Todd Knighton on this topic and If I dont; fubar it.. these are kinda his thoughts... Look at the torque curve if you doubt the efficiency of this config ....
He doesn't like to do the 993tt bolt on replacement intercoolers, for his clients... The manifold layout leaves you very little room to do anything. Even his (bolt on)is a minor compromise in the bolt-on form. He prefers to do the layout like on mt 993tt now great flow, great performance, no compromises. He can actually do the whole turbosystem like mine (mechanical parts anyhow) for the $20k and end up with a huge improvement, vs. just a minor improvement with an intercooler...
It's just hard to explain the logic sometimes to people...:-)
The Secan cores he's seen are just simply a tube/fin design like they use. Nice and lightweight, very closely resemble his cores. The only difference is not necessarily in the core itsself, but in the overall design of the intercooler. They are using a 14.5" run through the thing ALA GT2 stuff and the intercooler tucks under the back deck and wraps around the back to a na throttle body. It doesn't work with the standard throttle body arrangement, and if it does, it'll be no better than anything else out there due to the limitation on core run.
He guesses, basically, the layout of the 993tt is not good for performance. That's why their higherpowered systems and the factory racing GT2's changed all that to make good power
Ed
#9
or.. if you're man-woman. (money) enough...DAMN THE TORPEDOES... get the Big Boy rig.... and throw away your MAF and belly up to the world of outlaw inspection stations ;-).... and have a dyno like Jean's.( I think this is similar)... with MAP,,
ame exact rig as mine, I believe, with MAP, 60lb injectors (if memory serves)... 044 F pumps , and some big fans.....
.... and yes I would love to see some temp data logging on the track going back to an old post about intake temps and that elusive 15 degree delta when running big HP.....
and bejeezes.. if anyone wonders why I run Super 60 Garrett's look at the torque differences at 3500 RPM OMG.... on basically identical rigs... can confirm if anyone cares.... but basically turbo differences IMHO..... and yes my guys start to run out of breath at high 6'ks... and are probably getting ready for the barbecue...
oh it's friday.... silly me...
ed
ame exact rig as mine, I believe, with MAP, 60lb injectors (if memory serves)... 044 F pumps , and some big fans.....
.... and yes I would love to see some temp data logging on the track going back to an old post about intake temps and that elusive 15 degree delta when running big HP.....
and bejeezes.. if anyone wonders why I run Super 60 Garrett's look at the torque differences at 3500 RPM OMG.... on basically identical rigs... can confirm if anyone cares.... but basically turbo differences IMHO..... and yes my guys start to run out of breath at high 6'ks... and are probably getting ready for the barbecue...
oh it's friday.... silly me...
ed
Last edited by edpurplett; 11-11-2005 at 05:36 PM.
#10
Nordschleife Master
Craig,
Ruf builds fairly mild 490+ hp conversions, and insists on using the stock intercooler. Not everyone agrees with Ruf, but good golly, his stuff really works. I wouldn't worry about an intercooler at your proposed bolt-on power levels.
Ruf builds fairly mild 490+ hp conversions, and insists on using the stock intercooler. Not everyone agrees with Ruf, but good golly, his stuff really works. I wouldn't worry about an intercooler at your proposed bolt-on power levels.
#11
Drifting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: WEST SIDE OF MPLS, MN
Posts: 2,628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Ya gotta love that Knighton guy" OMFG !!, look at the torque
of Ed's motor at 4000 RPM !!!!!!!!!!!! Now there is tire twisting/burning
torque.
Love it.
Marty
of Ed's motor at 4000 RPM !!!!!!!!!!!! Now there is tire twisting/burning
torque.
Love it.
Marty
#12
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Ed we see the curves but this is about the intercooler?? Where is the data logging that goes with those curves? We want to see the inlet temps.. Are your knock sensors active? Show us the knock counts.. Where is the 91 octane curve?
#13
And whats going on with those curves? Is it the dyno or is there something going on in the engine?
Why is the torque curve so up and down. As Kevin suggests, are the knock sensors active?
The overal numbers are Ok, but the curves show up some odd engine behaviour or the dyno is not recording correctly. Is this an engine Dyno? Something is amiss. You shouldn't have a torque curve that goes down then up again. Same for the HP curve. Like to here what possibly is going on here.
Why is the torque curve so up and down. As Kevin suggests, are the knock sensors active?
The overal numbers are Ok, but the curves show up some odd engine behaviour or the dyno is not recording correctly. Is this an engine Dyno? Something is amiss. You shouldn't have a torque curve that goes down then up again. Same for the HP curve. Like to here what possibly is going on here.
#14
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I agree with Kevin Ed, these charts are kind of OT as they don't relate to intercooler efficiency. All the data logs are available BTW.
M42, well I am glad the knock sensors are active! Yes it is an engine dyno of a MAP engine and no, there is nothing wrong with them, the temps, AFRs BSFC and BSAC are all perfect across the range, just the chart scale is too big and detailed. Or they could be fake, which is another possibility..Should have used a chassis dyno instead and show a very nice smooth curve.
Originally Posted by m42racer
And whats going on with those curves? Is it the dyno or is there something going on in the engine?
Why is the torque curve so up and down. As Kevin suggests, are the knock sensors active? .... Is this an engine Dyno? Something is amiss. ....
Why is the torque curve so up and down. As Kevin suggests, are the knock sensors active? .... Is this an engine Dyno? Something is amiss. ....
#15
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Orange Park Acres, CA
Posts: 982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this question comes up every 2 years. For street use your fine. For extended track use over 20 minute sessions, and IMHO, 520 hp seems to be the threshhold where temps start to climb. I've have an intercooler temp gauge with an uprated intercooler. It works fine up to 600 hp on days were the ambient is 95 deg. F. With higher ambient temps, I dial back the boost a little. 100 octane only on track days. Glad to see you back Craig.