Patentman

It was a sad day yesterday (day after Thanksgiving) for my 97 993 silver mint condtion cabriolet (only 25K mnies), but a lucky day for me (as I am still alive and well for the most part). It was a clear day in Boston and the roads had been cleared of any snow left from a storm two days prior so I decided to get up early at 6:30 AM (let the wife and kids sleep in) and take the car to the mall for an hour or two (being the day after thanksgiving and all) of early shopping, hoping to be home by 9am. On Rt. 495 south in Westborough, I was changing lanes with a surprisingly small bit of acceleration, hit a patch of black ice and immediately the car was sideways. It proceed on autopilot, totally out of my control, to do about five 360's and impacted a guard rail on maybe a 50 degree angle into the front drivers side (deploying both airbags - scarded the hell out of me), bonced off and then did a few more 360's and hit the guard rail again in the back quarter. I was ok and there were no other cars involved. I did get a small cut and minor bump on my head from hitting the drivers window on guard rail impact (no broken glass though - all windows intact) - five staples later at UMass Medical and I am fine now).

Pretty scary, there was no way to regain control and I've recovered from many tailspins, oversteers, understeers, etc. at autocrosses, divers ed's, etc. (this is my second 911, and have had owned pcars for ten years now).

The car is probably totaled now with major front end damage (both fenders and hood crumpled, bumper gone, etc) and fairly major rear end damage as well, crushed read quaarter, crush engine lid, bumper, lenses, etc. The engine is in excellent shape (if anyone needs a low mile 993 engine, maybe the insurance company will be parting out the car??? I can ask and let you know). The top and interior are perfect and the tires (brand new dunlop SP8000s) and wheels are mint.

Durign the incident I was conscious the whole time, and only suffered the small bump and cut. Since I was cut howeever, the police took no chances and had an ambulance take me on a back board with neck brace, etc. to the hospital to be sure. While waiting for the ambulance, I was allowed to grab a few personal belongings from the car (radar detector, sunglasses, etc.) as I sensed I would probably not be seeing this car again (I was not really shaken up by it, just dissappointed and felling very lucky).

Interestingly, the impact cracked the faceplate of my new Alpine. This must have happened on air bag deployment or from compression of the dash board on impact.

Anyway - after reflecting on it, it was probably bad judgement on my part to drive the car in such cold temperatures (probably 25 degrees) but I guess I'm very lucky as I am pretty much ok and it could have been much worse (could have hit other cars, rocks, died, etc.).

Coincidentally, there was a state trooper a few cars behind me the whole time it happened. I was not speeding, no erratic driving, etc - just changing lanes. He witnessed the whole thing, did not cite me for anything, indicated it was a case of black ice and bad luck (but that I was lucky to not have been hurt worse or even killed) and called in a salt truck immediately for the area andan ambulance for my head.

Anyway, just a warning that black ice and Porsches dont mix well at all. I'm sure the 255/45 tires did not help much either.

So moving on with my life - I'm Porsche-less now. Anyone know where I can find another low mile (under 20K) silver 97 or 98 993 cab in mint condition??? (I bought this car on ebay from a Porsche conniseur in Oregon).

If it is indeed totaled (whcih I'm sort of hoping after damage like that), I plan to replace it most likely with another 993 cab - however my wife says I should get a bigger car such as a Mercedes CLK convertible (the large four seater sedan convertible they make, not the SLK two seater). I like the Porsche line for its heritage, looks, speed, handling, etc, but the Mercedes has a class appeal as well and I could actually fit kids in the back. Whatever I get I am sold on covertibles.

Anyone have a CLK they'd like to comment on?

Also - please email if you have any leads on a nice condition 993, low miles, silver cabriolet (I am open to other colors, but silver is so easy to keep clean).

--
Barry Chapin
barry.chapin@techpat.com

mpm '95 C4

Wow Barry

Glad you're ok...I learned my lesson with summer compounds in my S4 under similar conditions when new, but at much lower speeds - and not the same end result...

Thankfully you continued to 360 and did not come to quick stop! What a horrible experience that'll keep feeling like a bad dream until you replace it with your next cab.

Again glad you're are fine, good luck on the search, I'll keep my eyes out...

993RS

Barry,
Know how you must feel. Same thing happened to me 6 years ago: I totaled my 911SC against a guardrail due to ice on the autobahn. I too was not going fast at all and hit the guardrail a number of times from all sides. Seemed like the end of the world then... Be happy nothing happened to you (as nothing happened to me then either)...

Patentman

I was going about 60 MPH when it happened. I had just entered the highway (495 south from Rt. 9 East) and was still coming up to speed.

Does anyone know what criteria an insurance company uses to determine if the car it totaled or not? Seems to me it's totalled if (Parts + Labor to fix) > book value which kelly blue book places at $53.5K.

My guess is that a salvage yard can get some nice $$$ for the interior, the engine, suspension components, drivetrain and wheels, and maybe the doors, but the body corner/quarter panels are all most likely warped out of shape and my guess is the frame must be bent after a twice diagonal impact in the front and rear - man I was spinning like a top.

mpm '95 C4

Did the car run after it came to rest? What do the seams around your doors look like? If your doors (or a door) now stick (or doesn't open) then the tub is twisted, and that would most likely be a total. Same goes for the rear lid and front hood. Also underneath will give an idea if the engine/driveline parts pulled away.

But it is amazing how much punishment a 911 can take - except a total frontal, or T-boning...

So sorry for your loss, but better sheet metal than flesh and bone...

laurence '97 C4S

Sorry to hear about your accident. I am continually amazed at how well the 993 seems degrade in a serious accident, leaving the car destroyed, but the occupant up and walking.

Reminds me I am driving a very well design car- in all aspects. So far, I am glad I have not learned this personally.

Glad you are OK.
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Robert Henriksen

[quote]Originally posted by Patentman:
<strong>Does anyone know what criteria an insurance company uses to determine if the car it totaled or not? Seems to me it's totalled if (Parts + Labor to fix) &gt; book value which kelly blue book places at $53.5K.

My guess is that a salvage yard can get some nice $$$ for the interior, the engine, suspension components, drivetrain and wheels, and maybe the doors, but the body corner/quarter panels are all most likely warped out of shape and my guess is the frame must be bent after a twice diagonal impact in the front and rear - man I was spinning like a top.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Like everyone else, very sorry to hear the loss of your car. The population of 993s keep shrinking

My understanding is that a 'total' is when repair costs exceed some fraction of the car's current value. And that percentage can vary between different insurance companies; the poorer companies will spend 90% of the car's value, and hand you back a squeaky, rattly, unalignable car . Again, my understanding is that USAA's percentage is lower than most. I'm definitely afraid to call around & ask such a thing; I think I'd have to do it from a payphone under an alias to avoid having my record red-flagged for life!

Edit: at the risk of being offensively vulture-like, I'd like to go ahead & throw in an inquiry on your airbox cover. I've drilled mine, and would like to have an unmolested one on standby in the garage. If you get a chance to grab it, please keep me in mind -- thanks...

Rohan Nath

sorry to hear of your loss but most important thing is that no one was hurt.

i think the fraction of book value is 70% for mainstream insurance carriers like state farm.

Matt Vaughan

Barry, sorry to hear about your car; fortunately you're OK.

It's amazing how much these cars can take. When I had my '95 Cab, I was hit by a guy in the front left quarter. I had some damage to the body, suspension and wheel. The guy who hit me was in some sort of Oldsmobuick (fairly large car), and his car looked FAR worse than mine. His front bumper came off and had all kinds of damage to his front end. Gotta love these cars...

Anir

Barry,

I'm also sorry about your misfortune, but am happy to hear that you are physically OK. My first winter in the 993, I managed to spin it on ice while running S-02's. I was lucky because I didn't hit anything.

I have noticed that the grip of typical "maximum performance" or "ultra high performance" tires (to borrow Tire Rack's terminology) drops off precipitously below about 40 - 45 degrees - even without frank ice.

Since that spin, I have run <a href="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=Winter+240+SnowSport" target="_blank">Pirelli Winter 240 Snowsports</a> all winter, and they have performed very well. If you are able to repair your 993, or at least able to replace your baby with another one, you might consider these tires for the future. I wish you the best.

Harold

Barry, great to hear that you are ok- that is the most important thing.

Just another little warning....always check your fuel filler cap to ensure that it has been securely closed after a visit to the petrol station. A couple of years back, the pump attendant had not secured the cap properly, and soon after leaving the station, I was pulling a hard right hander and guess what...fuel leaked down the side of the car...hit the road....my rear left tire got a coating of it and voila I was dancing on ice....

and thats not even considering the issues of a spark or flame somewhere near the car!

Take care.

dvj

Barry- amazing your alive and thanks for that. If you have to spin it might as well be in a Porsche.

My comment on summmer compounds and ice. NO tire and NO vehicle seems to be safe on ice. I am not sure that a Sequoia would have not spun on that road. I have two cars (neither Porsche) with summer compounds that I drive on DRY winter roads without problem even below freezing. If it is wet or snowing I rent a car. I do not push the cars like I do in warm weather. Years ago I had studded tires and they were great on ice but slippery on dry roads.

The scary thing is that water runoff from bridges, driveways and curbs when above freezing during the day can create hazards that can injure people as it freezes over night. The cure is San Diego. Car enthusiasts and the Midwest/Northeast weather are incomptable.

fbfisher

What a horrible thing to go through, your description really took me there with you, just an awful experience. The opposite of the grin when I read descriptions of ride alongs on track events.

Get back on the horse, stay with the Porsche as nothing feels like it. After all, how often are the kids really with you (my rationalization)?

Re total or not total: Search for threads on "Diminished Value" as even if your car is repaired to original "mint" condition it will never be worth what it was four days ago. Argue to your insurance company that it will be more like the value of a salvage title without the actual salvage. From posts I have read others on this board have experience with this issue.

Have a drink, relax, count your blessings and hope the rest of the process goes easily. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Patentman

Thanks for all your concerns. I get to see the car one more time (assuming its totaled) - I am having it sent to Dicks Autobody in Somerville, MA where they do excellent work on Porsches (they converted my former 911 SC into a widebody and did a great job). My guess is that the frame and tub will be out of sqare now. I have AMICA for insurance. If the total factor is something like 70% of the book value, then I am thinking I'll never drive this car again.

I guess I have to return to get my license plates and to sign over the title if it is totaled. I'll probably find out Monday or Tuesday when the appraiser looks at it, but Richard or Frank at Dicks will probably be able to tell me as soon as they see it (It was in early in the summer for a collision with a deer - so this is round two for this car. Maybe its possessed?!?!).

I doubt they will let me snag some parts, but the car was absolutely mint. It had most options - full power seats, motor sound package, limited slip differential, brand new dunlops SP8000 (less than 500 miles on them), and the interior and cab top is in mint condition. The parts houses or whoever gets it will have a heyday. Does anyone know if I should try to recover extra $$ for the stereo head unit - a new Alpine about $500 whcih now has a cracked faceplate (I guess it would be my word against theirs to say it was cracked in the accident - whcih it actually was but I am still baffeled as to how this happened?).

The engine was actually still idling when I finally came to rest. During the first spin, I depressed the clutch completely, and tried doing some controlled braking to recover from the spins, to no avail. After I stopped, I put it in neutral and stepped out of the car (feeling the bump on my head). I had to go back in the car to shut it off so I know the engine still runs at least.

I think there was oil leaking onto the pavement however, so there may have been stresses to the oil hoses from the front to the back of the car, or the shock of the impact may have fractured the oil tank or something.

David in LA

Re: whether totaled or not. Make sure the insurance adjuster takes into account "diminished value" in determinig whether to total your car...it may be the deciding factor if your case is borderline.

I've also emailed and PM'ed you.

Good luck with your search for a new car.