Thinking the unthinkable ??? (very, very long)
04-11-2002, 03:30 PM
#17
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Ahhh...Bullet, that's what I'd like to believe...but here are the things I *know* need work in the next 10,000 mi
o New Brake Rotors (DIY, $400)
o New Shocks all around ($1000 parts & labor)
o 75,000mi service (part DIY, $300-$500)
o New brake fluid resevoir (maybe) $800
o New left exhaust valve cover gasket ($400)
That's $3100 in necessary maintainence with me doing much of the work myself. Only after all of this will the car be "sorted" Both in the sense that I would be confident in the car everyday, and the sense that it would pass a PCA tech inspection for getting out on TWS.
Of course, I suppose $3100 is a lot cheaper than a new car....and it is a part of the family
...
sean
o New Brake Rotors (DIY, $400)
o New Shocks all around ($1000 parts & labor)
o 75,000mi service (part DIY, $300-$500)
o New brake fluid resevoir (maybe) $800
o New left exhaust valve cover gasket ($400)
That's $3100 in necessary maintainence with me doing much of the work myself. Only after all of this will the car be "sorted" Both in the sense that I would be confident in the car everyday, and the sense that it would pass a PCA tech inspection for getting out on TWS.
Of course, I suppose $3100 is a lot cheaper than a new car....and it is a part of the family
...sean
04-11-2002, 03:44 PM
#18
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Sean
The consequences of going P-less can be devastating:
My last Porsche was a 1989 Black-on-Black Targa which I bought new.I drove quite a bit but gradually began to get bored with it. I sold it in 1994. Within two months I was going through massive withdrawal symptoms. I ordered a new 993 in 1995 (C2, Polar Silver) for factory pick-up. I will NEVER dispose of this one. I have developed a strategy that brings me joy each time I drive it. I bought a pick-up truck as an every day driver. Think of the comparison! By the time I get back to the 993 each week for twisty road miles, it is like driving a completely new, different car. Not only is the 993 not a daily driver but I do not track it. The upside is that I do not abuse the car enough to generate big bills but just enough (6000 miles/year) to keep it loose. The downside is obvious: not enough seat time in the 993
This strategy has kept my repair costs low on all the Porsches I have purchased new. Aside from the shocking costs of routine service (oil change and tune) the only repair performed was a $720 master cylinder. Not bad for a 95 with 34K. So the moral of the story is: buy it low mileage, do not abuse it, do not drive it TOO often....and the few times you do drive it will bring greater thrills and fewer bills.
The consequences of going P-less can be devastating:
My last Porsche was a 1989 Black-on-Black Targa which I bought new.I drove quite a bit but gradually began to get bored with it. I sold it in 1994. Within two months I was going through massive withdrawal symptoms. I ordered a new 993 in 1995 (C2, Polar Silver) for factory pick-up. I will NEVER dispose of this one. I have developed a strategy that brings me joy each time I drive it. I bought a pick-up truck as an every day driver. Think of the comparison! By the time I get back to the 993 each week for twisty road miles, it is like driving a completely new, different car. Not only is the 993 not a daily driver but I do not track it. The upside is that I do not abuse the car enough to generate big bills but just enough (6000 miles/year) to keep it loose. The downside is obvious: not enough seat time in the 993
This strategy has kept my repair costs low on all the Porsches I have purchased new. Aside from the shocking costs of routine service (oil change and tune) the only repair performed was a $720 master cylinder. Not bad for a 95 with 34K. So the moral of the story is: buy it low mileage, do not abuse it, do not drive it TOO often....and the few times you do drive it will bring greater thrills and fewer bills.
04-11-2002, 03:53 PM
#19
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Pardon the meandering...I am thinking while I type.
One of the fundamental problems with a list like this is that you are constantly bombarded by 993 related problems, "My xxx just stopped working..", "My ppxy is causing the xxr to sound gravelly" and so on. Sometime I stop reading because I get really depressed. You start to believe that the 993's are falling apart and are piles of cra*, even the ones with 10,000 miles!
Then you get the posts with an expensive bill that was expected because the car has over 20,000 miles...geeze that is not even broken in!
I had a 83 911SC that had 130,000 miles that was solid as a rock and only require mileage and time related maintenance. Anything else I spent on the car was for upgrades and going faster. I had assumed (and promised to my wife) when I "upgraded" to the 993 it won't be any worse..but I have only had my 993 for a few months so I can't tell yet. But I am still hopeful.
The one thing that I have control over is doing as much of the work myself. If my car needs a clutch I can do it myself. Top end rebuild...hmm maybe. This keeps the costs down and keeps me close to the car. And this list is invaluable to help me do this.
I can't control the parts prices though...and lots of them seem to be beyond just being ripped off! That part hurts.
I just went to the big Autoshow here in Vancouver and was very hard pressed to find any cars that I would drive if I sold my 993 (except for the Mini Cooper S. I used to race them so they have a certain appeal). The BMW's are too common and too pedestrian. The other exotics are fragile.
So keep your 993! If you do have a lemon, sell it and find another. There really is no substitute. If you want super reliable and super mundane buy a Toyota!
Of course if my Targa acts up.... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
One of the fundamental problems with a list like this is that you are constantly bombarded by 993 related problems, "My xxx just stopped working..", "My ppxy is causing the xxr to sound gravelly" and so on. Sometime I stop reading because I get really depressed. You start to believe that the 993's are falling apart and are piles of cra*, even the ones with 10,000 miles!
Then you get the posts with an expensive bill that was expected because the car has over 20,000 miles...geeze that is not even broken in!
I had a 83 911SC that had 130,000 miles that was solid as a rock and only require mileage and time related maintenance. Anything else I spent on the car was for upgrades and going faster. I had assumed (and promised to my wife) when I "upgraded" to the 993 it won't be any worse..but I have only had my 993 for a few months so I can't tell yet. But I am still hopeful.
The one thing that I have control over is doing as much of the work myself. If my car needs a clutch I can do it myself. Top end rebuild...hmm maybe. This keeps the costs down and keeps me close to the car. And this list is invaluable to help me do this.
I can't control the parts prices though...and lots of them seem to be beyond just being ripped off! That part hurts.
I just went to the big Autoshow here in Vancouver and was very hard pressed to find any cars that I would drive if I sold my 993 (except for the Mini Cooper S. I used to race them so they have a certain appeal). The BMW's are too common and too pedestrian. The other exotics are fragile.
So keep your 993! If you do have a lemon, sell it and find another. There really is no substitute. If you want super reliable and super mundane buy a Toyota!
Of course if my Targa acts up.... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
04-11-2002, 03:58 PM
#20
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freeman, others...
A commuter car is just not an option - cars (except Ferraris) are meant to be driven. I'm not going to miss-out on one second of my p-car enjoyment just to save a few $. My Dad tried this with his 1990 C2. (car has 32,000 miles) He's just started driving it more than once a week and I'm sure is kicking himself for having kept it in the garage all those years. Missed time with a car is just not worth it at any price!!!
Hmmm. Am I starting to sound like pops (Ray Calvo) ? Better quit it.
sean
A commuter car is just not an option - cars (except Ferraris) are meant to be driven. I'm not going to miss-out on one second of my p-car enjoyment just to save a few $. My Dad tried this with his 1990 C2. (car has 32,000 miles) He's just started driving it more than once a week and I'm sure is kicking himself for having kept it in the garage all those years. Missed time with a car is just not worth it at any price!!!
Hmmm. Am I starting to sound like pops (Ray Calvo) ? Better quit it.
sean
04-11-2002, 05:27 PM
#23
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Let me not wax as eloquently as some others have, but rather say that Mike is right in that on a board like this, you have true enthiasiasts who discuss problems and conditions that occur more frequently since we all have the same cars. In other words, reading this forum would leave osmeone to believe that all 95 cars have a wiring harness issue, when in reality NHTSA only has record of about .5%
Sean, my car has 105k and has the original clutch and shocks and runs fine. Sure it probably needs new shocks, but it can wait.
Do what you think is best. Of course I have also lived the flip side with my 1983 Audi Coupe Quattro Turbo (the limited edition group b homologation car). It needed 3 doses of $2500 in the same year and that was it. Of course I still wish I had the car in the garage (next to the 993 mind you). So it's a tough call.
E. J.
Sean, my car has 105k and has the original clutch and shocks and runs fine. Sure it probably needs new shocks, but it can wait.
Do what you think is best. Of course I have also lived the flip side with my 1983 Audi Coupe Quattro Turbo (the limited edition group b homologation car). It needed 3 doses of $2500 in the same year and that was it. Of course I still wish I had the car in the garage (next to the 993 mind you). So it's a tough call.
E. J.
04-11-2002, 05:48 PM
#24
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Sean -
I have owned an early 95 for almost a year now. My prior 911 was an 83'SC (202,000 miles) that I traded for a 4.0 Range Rover for the wife and newest family member (baby boy). I began driving her MB190 and the "truck." Over the course of the next several months I realized that we had transportation - and that I no longer had something to "drive." I then began looking for another 911 - I had anticipated buying a late 80's Carrera; until I drove a 993.
I truely believe that this series offers the best compromise between a driving experience and the creature comforts for daily commuting. I purchased a 993 with a little less than 100K (not a lot of miles in my mind) as my daily driver. It spun 122K this morning (my commute is about 90 miles a day - with more time in the seat on the weekends, if I can get it) and shows no signes of letting up. I have put about 5k in service repairs (new a/c compressor and expansion valve; valve seals; tires; windshield; oil changes) and the list of things that I will need to replace reads like the table of contents for the shop manuel.
But the way I see it Sean - they have stopped making the 911 that we have all come to love (I have driven both the Boxster S and the 996) and, thus we are all faced with the task of having to slowly rebuild our cars, piece by piece as components reach their life expectancy.
I don't know what you have replaced Sean, but it sounds to me like you are just that much closer to your "new" 993.
I have owned an early 95 for almost a year now. My prior 911 was an 83'SC (202,000 miles) that I traded for a 4.0 Range Rover for the wife and newest family member (baby boy). I began driving her MB190 and the "truck." Over the course of the next several months I realized that we had transportation - and that I no longer had something to "drive." I then began looking for another 911 - I had anticipated buying a late 80's Carrera; until I drove a 993.
I truely believe that this series offers the best compromise between a driving experience and the creature comforts for daily commuting. I purchased a 993 with a little less than 100K (not a lot of miles in my mind) as my daily driver. It spun 122K this morning (my commute is about 90 miles a day - with more time in the seat on the weekends, if I can get it) and shows no signes of letting up. I have put about 5k in service repairs (new a/c compressor and expansion valve; valve seals; tires; windshield; oil changes) and the list of things that I will need to replace reads like the table of contents for the shop manuel.
But the way I see it Sean - they have stopped making the 911 that we have all come to love (I have driven both the Boxster S and the 996) and, thus we are all faced with the task of having to slowly rebuild our cars, piece by piece as components reach their life expectancy.
I don't know what you have replaced Sean, but it sounds to me like you are just that much closer to your "new" 993.
04-11-2002, 06:59 PM
#25
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Hey Edward,
Dont get panicky...
I have a friend who bought his targa a month after me. He's been very happy with it.
He knew it required a clutch change soon so took into account. The only minor problem that he has had is with a broken doobry on the shade.
My point is that there are many who are very happy with their 993s.
Regards
Dont get panicky...
I have a friend who bought his targa a month after me. He's been very happy with it.
He knew it required a clutch change soon so took into account. The only minor problem that he has had is with a broken doobry on the shade.
My point is that there are many who are very happy with their 993s.
Regards
04-11-2002, 07:29 PM
#26
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This is mostly directed at any anyone who might be contemplating a 993 (or any other car of that sort...). I just recently purchased a 1996 993 coupe with 61K. After looking over the offerings on the various web sites I realized I did not have the savy to be confident of any choice I might make. Even with a PPI, a car that I can't look at and touch first... Well, the thought left me very uncomfortable. I've owned a 1980 SC for the last 4 years and it has been great. But even so a 1-3 synchro rebuild, clutch, and new cat really set me back.
So the only thing for me was to go the dealer route. I found the 993 at a dealer about 250 miles away. I probably paid a bit more.
But I was also able to purchase a 2 year 24k full coverage warranty (work done by the nearest P-Dealer). This was not cheap ($4K!). But I will sleep very well. At least for the next 2 years...
By the by, after owning the car for about 8 weeks I've found out it might very well have an rear engine seal leak.
The bottom line with this sort of thing:
Lots o' Fun = Big $$$'s
Go fast,
Go Safe,
Chris (new member, just waiting for my sticker)
1980 911 SC
1996 993 <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
So the only thing for me was to go the dealer route. I found the 993 at a dealer about 250 miles away. I probably paid a bit more.
But I was also able to purchase a 2 year 24k full coverage warranty (work done by the nearest P-Dealer). This was not cheap ($4K!). But I will sleep very well. At least for the next 2 years...
By the by, after owning the car for about 8 weeks I've found out it might very well have an rear engine seal leak.
The bottom line with this sort of thing:
Lots o' Fun = Big $$$'s
Go fast,
Go Safe,
Chris (new member, just waiting for my sticker)
1980 911 SC
1996 993 <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
04-11-2002, 09:34 PM
#27
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Sorry, I just don't buy lots of fun = BIG$$$. And I really get pissed off lately when people try to convince me that the 95 car has all sorts of problems. It's just crap. Lets look where the high mileage 97s are in 2 years - probably the same place our 95s are today. I have put 25k miles on my car in 2 years and I replaced the wiring harness and the AC evaporator and the alternator (on my own). Other than that, all routine stuff. I change the oil and the other maintenance stuff on my own. Original clutch still going strong at 105k.
I say BS to the 95s having more problems than other models.
E. J.
I say BS to the 95s having more problems than other models.
E. J.
04-11-2002, 09:42 PM
#28
Boy. This is depressing. About a month ago, my 911 started leaking oil between the #6 cyl. and the case - thought I had a busted head stud. Pulled out the valve cover, and luckily, all the studs were intact. Then, miraculously, the leak stopped. Prior to finding out the studs were ok, I was seriously depressed - I would end up having to spend tons to fix it or lose a ton selling a car w/ a broken head stud. Well, I don't have to sell it now.
I drive it whenever I need to go somewhere now and enjoy it immensely.
What I think happens to people who don't drive their 911 often is that when they do drive it, something bad happens due to the car sitting around for so long. But when you drive it all the time, you get more seat time w/ a fully functioning car; the breakdowns seem fewer and further apart. What this mean is you're enjoying your car. However, I guess it's possible to enjoy it by just staring at it in your garage.
I drive it whenever I need to go somewhere now and enjoy it immensely.
What I think happens to people who don't drive their 911 often is that when they do drive it, something bad happens due to the car sitting around for so long. But when you drive it all the time, you get more seat time w/ a fully functioning car; the breakdowns seem fewer and further apart. What this mean is you're enjoying your car. However, I guess it's possible to enjoy it by just staring at it in your garage.
04-11-2002, 09:43 PM
#29
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What are you guys trying to do??? Scare everyone?
My 95 993 with 90k miles has been outstanding!!! I've owned it for 2 1/2 yrs (bought @ 55K miles) and track regularly, and the car has been BULLET PROOF!! No major issues whatsoever! BTY, it's my daily and weekend driver! Life's too short not to drive a 993!
Just remember, this board attracts true 993 enthusiasts, and with enthusiasts, you sometimes get more informations than needed. What I'm saying is that because a few people posted problems on this board, this does not represent the majority of 993 owners!!!
95 993's get a bad rap on this board (sometimes, a least). From my experiences, I would recommend a 993 in a heartbeat! It truly is one of the most magnificant pieces of machinery that can be used daily and tracked like crazy over the weekend.
Cheers!
My 95 993 with 90k miles has been outstanding!!! I've owned it for 2 1/2 yrs (bought @ 55K miles) and track regularly, and the car has been BULLET PROOF!! No major issues whatsoever! BTY, it's my daily and weekend driver! Life's too short not to drive a 993!
Just remember, this board attracts true 993 enthusiasts, and with enthusiasts, you sometimes get more informations than needed. What I'm saying is that because a few people posted problems on this board, this does not represent the majority of 993 owners!!!
95 993's get a bad rap on this board (sometimes, a least). From my experiences, I would recommend a 993 in a heartbeat! It truly is one of the most magnificant pieces of machinery that can be used daily and tracked like crazy over the weekend.
Cheers!
04-11-2002, 10:13 PM
#30
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More on big fun = big bucks.
Yo E.J.
I'm sorry if you took my post to be a comment on '95 993s. It wasn't and please accept my apologies for not being more direct.
Note: For myself the 993 (or any p-car!) is the most impractical of cars (so says the rational side of my brain). I really can not afford one. This is not a knock on P-cars, just the acknowlegement that my salary basically sucks. My daily driver is an '88 Nissan Pickup with 198K.
So for me big fun = big bucks. The "big bucks" are just big relative to my salary...
Speaking only for myself...
I didn't buy it for transportation.
I didn't buy it for peace of mind.
-Not that P-cars can't provide these things...
These things just did not enter into the equation at any level.
I bought it for the sole reason that I've never had a feeling quite like I get when I'm in my Porsche.
To the best of rides,
Chris <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Yo E.J.
I'm sorry if you took my post to be a comment on '95 993s. It wasn't and please accept my apologies for not being more direct.
Note: For myself the 993 (or any p-car!) is the most impractical of cars (so says the rational side of my brain). I really can not afford one. This is not a knock on P-cars, just the acknowlegement that my salary basically sucks. My daily driver is an '88 Nissan Pickup with 198K.
So for me big fun = big bucks. The "big bucks" are just big relative to my salary...
Speaking only for myself...
I didn't buy it for transportation.
I didn't buy it for peace of mind.
-Not that P-cars can't provide these things...
These things just did not enter into the equation at any level.
I bought it for the sole reason that I've never had a feeling quite like I get when I'm in my Porsche.
To the best of rides,
Chris <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />