MarkPcar

Hi all,

I’m considering the purchase of a C4S, to date all of my Porsche ownership has been 356’s (stock and race) and early 911’s. I believe, as probably everyone here, that the last years of the 993’s will become quite collectible. So, I want to buy a super clean one that I can drive, but also preserve for the long haul.

I’ve found a nice 97 with 27,000 miles on it, but the owner has done some mods. In the 356 & early 911 world a high premium is paid for ‘originality’ in cars.

My question is – in your opinion will the following modifications ‘hurt’ the long-term collectible value of this C4S? Or do any of these things increase the stress (wear) on the car or engine?

- H&R springs (-1.25),
- B&B performance exhaust and headers
- carbon fiber air intake
- carbon fiber strut bar
- software upgrade – eliminated the top end limiter and changed the timing slightly.

The owner claims a HP increase to 325.

Any/all opinions welcome.

Thanks

Greg Fishman

No way did he increase the power that much with a chip.

You ought to look at Viken's car as it is very original and only has modifications that "fix" the issues with the US cars. The gearbox and RS clutch/LWF are very desirable. IMO.


http://pcarracing.homestead.com/vb993.html

Randy M

Personally I would wonder about potential damage to the engine with the rev limiter removed. Maybe Steve W will chime in. He has mentioned beefing up some of the internals to withstand the higher rev stress on the motor. Other than that everything looks to be reversible if you wanted to turn it back to original. 325 hp with just these mods? The owner is sniffing glue. That is RS territory.

User 4621

I agree with the previous comments, and will add that as the last air-cooled model, the 993 will definitely be a collectable car....someday. When is that day? I'm not sure, are SC's collectable? Are 80's Carrera's collectable? The 993 might be collectable in 20 years. There were a lot made and a lot still on the road.

If you want to be a custodian for 20 years, buy an all original low mile car, and avoid putting miles on it. If you want to enjoy driving it, buy a well maintained car that already has the mods that would increase your driving pleasure.

Good luck,

Greg D.

....But to answer the question about originality, I think it's hard to compare the 993 to a 356 in terms of originality vs. upgrades. Even in the early 80s few people gave a fig about originality on 356s, it's a relatively recent trend as those cars are 40+ year old and definitely collectible. I think the 993 is only collectible as far as being the last aircooled 911, but not in the same category as a classic 356 because it still is a very modern car with close to 300 hp, people are interested in extending their "competitive life", so to speak, so anything that improves handling or power and does not hurt the reliability is viewed as a good thing...

The chip is probably not a big deal, I doubt the HP claims are real though. Everything else you mentioned are reversible upgrades, and in most cases like shocks, a good thing that brings the car back to euro specs...

In my opinion, in the 993 world you pay a premium for "upgrades you might have wanted to do yourself", not originality, unless you're talking concours 993 RS or Turbo S, rarer cars... Don't sweat it, enjoy the kick in the pants ! i do too when I step out of my 356 !

MarkPcar

Thanks guys, all points well taken. I'm most likely not going to keep the car for 20+ years and I've already done the garage queen thing - no fun. So, I'll let you know if I end up with this car.

ca993twin

Mark,

Try driving a 993TT before you buy the C4S. Nothing wrong with a C4S, but there is a night and day performance difference with the TT, and the price delta is actually quite small. You may decide you like the C4S better... different strokes, and all. But you owe it to yourself to take a test drive before you decide.

KINGSRULE

C4S vs TT..

TT has a boosted clutch which in my opinion makes the car very undesirable. The clutch has absolutely no "feel" at all. It's very benign and not rewarding to drive.

ca993twin

GJ,

Obviously, not everyone would agree with your rather harsh assessment of the clutch feel (I rather like mine!), and that's why I suggest that Mark test drive a TT for himself. Perhaps you drove a bad example?

Tom C.

I'd be careful of the header system mentioned. Since heat seems to cause premature valve guide wear, I believe the headers will also increase heat retained in the head and contribute to the valve guides going south earlier than usual (don't ask what usual is).

Also, Viken's car sure is tough to pass up . . . I wish you'd buy it just so I can finally get a good nights rest.

Jim

I thought if you installed headers you sacrifice a functional heater for the car's interior. Hope you live near the Equator...did I miss a huge earthquake in Seattle?

ksjcorpus

i just joined rennlist a few days ago and everywhere i keep seeing people trying to sell viken's car --- is he giving out a cut or is that superb an example. really though .. i've checked it out and it's undoubtedly sweet but for 55k yikes. you can get a tt for that.

Mike W

Wow, Boosted clutch - I better sell my TT right away and buy a C2/C4! Mike W

ca993twin

Mike,

Yes, that damn boosted clutch makes our cars undesireable. CJ seems to be OK with the boosted steering and the boosted brakes, but give the clutch a boost, and the car is junk. Hmmmmm. ***** envy, me thinks.

laurence '97 C4S

Mark-
Without question, if the 993 becomes a collectible car, low mile, well maintained, non-modded cars will be worth considerably more than molested cars. Original cars are (and will continue to be) the hallmark of collectibility. I personally think the 993's have a reasonable shot at being a highly desirable collector car in the future. Only time will answer this question with certainty. However, low production numbers, even lower survival rate of clean cars (non-modded or destroyed) coupled with Porsche's switch to water-cooled engines, makes the future likelihood of 993 collectibility intriguing. I should had, I'm biased as my 993 has only been "modified" by the 12,000 enjoyable miles I have put on her since new.