Help on 993 vs. 00 Boxster S purchase
09-26-2003, 01:51 PM
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Help on 993 vs. 00 Boxster S purchase
Hello all, New member and first post. Looking for some opinions on P car purchase. Thinking of selling my 02 M3, SMG to a friend who wants it bad. Love the car, but I live 3 miles from work and put about 5k a yr on my car. In the last 2 years I went from a new 02 M3, sold it (5kmiles) to buy a much pricier house and then that deal fell through. Heartbreaking I sold the car for nothing. Couldn't stomach paying another 60k (out the door) so I bought a G35 coupe w 6 speed. Great car for 35k but the styling never grew on me, so I bought a used M3 same as my previous w 12k miles. I love it, but also would love a lower payment since I"m now doing an addition on my house. I pretty much have it sold to a friend for 47k.
All that said (boring) I'm figuring to spend 35k for either a 00 Boxter S or a 993. I've found several low mile cars of each in that range. I"m looking at the two from...
1)Investment value- Boxter may have more near term depreciation due to new model around the corner and the sheer # of em out there, whereas the 993 may have taken more of it's hit in this area?
2) Concept of a newer more modern car (3 yrs. old) w some warranty left vs. older car w no warranty left and less creature comforts (so I read)
3) Fun factor. I will most likely not have the opportunity to track the car, and I live in SoCal so a convertable would get a lot of use.
I drove a Boxter S last week and was able to drive some twisties on a beatiful day, and I thought it was a blast. I haven't driven the 993 yet, will have a chance to drive a nice 1 owner one w 30k miles on monday. Back seat is a bonus for my small kids in a pinch, but I have other cars so not a necessity. I did own a 84 Carerra years ago, but I"m guessing the 993 is a whole 'nother world from it.
Any advice about the differences would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting killed on taxes but I'm an addict who tends to change cars regularly for no real good reason other than as soon as I get one toy, soon after I start fiending for another. (I was like that w women too, but that a story for another day) Just in case you think I"m a died in the wool BMW dude, I've had many of both brands and love em both! Cars over the last 8 years are...
90 4 runner (gave to my kid)
84 944 sold
85 944 sold
86 944 Turbo sold and missed greatly!
84 Carerra Targa
95 M3 Avus Blue sold
97 M3 new Boston Green sold
95 Volvo Turbo Wagon (wifes, for sale)
02 M3, smg, tiSil sold
03 G35 6 spd Coupe Silver sold
96 Landcruiser (wifes freshie)
02 M3 smg, ??? ti Sil
I don't want to add up the taxes paid, I need help! Hoping the next one will be the one for at least 2-3 years or longer. Pro and con of the Boxster S vs. 993 please, I've read most of the previous post on the subject. Thanks again Len
All that said (boring) I'm figuring to spend 35k for either a 00 Boxter S or a 993. I've found several low mile cars of each in that range. I"m looking at the two from...
1)Investment value- Boxter may have more near term depreciation due to new model around the corner and the sheer # of em out there, whereas the 993 may have taken more of it's hit in this area?
2) Concept of a newer more modern car (3 yrs. old) w some warranty left vs. older car w no warranty left and less creature comforts (so I read)
3) Fun factor. I will most likely not have the opportunity to track the car, and I live in SoCal so a convertable would get a lot of use.
I drove a Boxter S last week and was able to drive some twisties on a beatiful day, and I thought it was a blast. I haven't driven the 993 yet, will have a chance to drive a nice 1 owner one w 30k miles on monday. Back seat is a bonus for my small kids in a pinch, but I have other cars so not a necessity. I did own a 84 Carerra years ago, but I"m guessing the 993 is a whole 'nother world from it.
Any advice about the differences would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting killed on taxes but I'm an addict who tends to change cars regularly for no real good reason other than as soon as I get one toy, soon after I start fiending for another. (I was like that w women too, but that a story for another day) Just in case you think I"m a died in the wool BMW dude, I've had many of both brands and love em both! Cars over the last 8 years are...
90 4 runner (gave to my kid)
84 944 sold
85 944 sold
86 944 Turbo sold and missed greatly!
84 Carerra Targa
95 M3 Avus Blue sold
97 M3 new Boston Green sold
95 Volvo Turbo Wagon (wifes, for sale)
02 M3, smg, tiSil sold
03 G35 6 spd Coupe Silver sold
96 Landcruiser (wifes freshie)
02 M3 smg, ??? ti Sil
I don't want to add up the taxes paid, I need help! Hoping the next one will be the one for at least 2-3 years or longer. Pro and con of the Boxster S vs. 993 please, I've read most of the previous post on the subject. Thanks again Len
09-26-2003, 02:07 PM
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Move to Oregon, no sales tax, for now.
09-26-2003, 02:15 PM
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There are several guys on this board who own both and can probably give you some good feedback of back-to-back comparisons. When I had my E36 M3 I test drove the Boxster S. Aside from being a cabriolet it didn't make me want to sell my M3. Performance felt the same (my intention was not to track). My 993 just feels like a completely different animal than the M3 (because it is) and puts a huge grin on my face every time I drive it. The 993 will hold its value better because they're a few years older, and in most peoples opinion is a more solid built car than the Boxster. I haven't read much about reliability on the Boxsters, but mine is everybit as reliable as my '87 Carrera (currently w/42k miles). Looks/design is a personal opinion, but there certainly are a lot more Boxsters on the road than 993's. I'm not knocking the Boxster, I just prefer the 993, hence I own one.
You're shopping for a nice Porsche, so either way you won't lose. From a financial perspective, you could buy a 993 and if you still have a craving for a Boxster S you could switch to that car in another year or so while the Boxster continues to take the steeper newer-car depreciation.
You're shopping for a nice Porsche, so either way you won't lose. From a financial perspective, you could buy a 993 and if you still have a craving for a Boxster S you could switch to that car in another year or so while the Boxster continues to take the steeper newer-car depreciation.
09-26-2003, 02:37 PM
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Boxsters are nice, and I do love teh look. But I do not think they stand up tot the 993. Frankly, I looked at a lot of different cabs a while ago, and for the $$ could not justify the expense of the Boxster (new) and bought a Honda S2000. They can be had used in the 20s (for very nice ones). Very fun.
993s are a whole different beast. You need to drive a 993, decide if the convertible aspect of the Boxster is important or not, and then make the call. The 993 is my favorite car from many standpoints, and so, for me, if I cold have only one, it is the 993.
Or, get an S2000 and a 993!
993s are a whole different beast. You need to drive a 993, decide if the convertible aspect of the Boxster is important or not, and then make the call. The 993 is my favorite car from many standpoints, and so, for me, if I cold have only one, it is the 993.
Or, get an S2000 and a 993!
09-26-2003, 02:44 PM
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I too have a 993 and think it is the best car I have ever owned. With that said, there are 3 people in my office with Boxsters, 2 being the S. They are great looking cars, can be modded and sound great. My driving experience in a Boxster has been brief but my understanding is they are easy (compared to a 993) to drive fast.
From a financial perspective, I would think you can get a low mileage clean 2000 Boxster for less than a low mileage clean 993. The 993 will probably have already hit a majority of it's depreciation already. The 993 is also less common than the Boxster so resale may be better.
Two great but very different cars. Drive both then decide. Good luck.
From a financial perspective, I would think you can get a low mileage clean 2000 Boxster for less than a low mileage clean 993. The 993 will probably have already hit a majority of it's depreciation already. The 993 is also less common than the Boxster so resale may be better.
Two great but very different cars. Drive both then decide. Good luck.
09-26-2003, 02:52 PM
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First I'll state three disclaimers:
a) I own a 993 so I might be biased
b) My 993 is not stock (like many here)
c) These are just my opinions based on my personality. Yours may differ
Coincidentally, I just drove a Boxster S last night. After five miles or so, I was extremely disappointed. I felt that the drive was very sterile. The engine noise was uninspiring until you go to the high RPMs. Below 5-6K, it sounds more like a turbine. The steering gives you some feel but I thought slightly rubbery. The shifter, however, I like. I've always been partial to the snick-snick feel of the cable Boxster/996 shifter although some here prefer the more direct mechanical 993 shifter. The car definitely has some go (after all, we're talking about the S here) and has a nimble chassis, changing lanes easily, probably due to both a short wheelbase and mid-engine design (lower polar of momentum). Overall, however, I was left with the feeling that a certain emotion or joie de vive was missing from the car. A big disappointment after reading about the raves from auto mag journalists.
Then, I dropped the top and the whole world changed around me. I then realized what the Boxster's mission is and life driving the Boxster became a lot more fun. I like the feeling of being coddled in the car with its high doors. It was the most fun convertible I've ever driven (but I haven't driven a 993 cab so who knows?). It was fun cruising down the main street of a hip part of the town, feeling the eyes on me (or rather, probably on the car).
IMHO, that sums the difference between the two cars. The 993 is clearly the sportscar, more so when you lower it and have the engine blowing through the RSRs. The Boxster, even in S form, is a sporty GT though I hear that they do great autox cars. Certainly less stressful to drive in traffic and would do great as a daily driver. While I wouldn't mind having the Boxster as an addition to the 993 (I've fantasized about having my future wife drive one!), I would take the 993 over the Boxster anyday if I had to choose.
a) I own a 993 so I might be biased
b) My 993 is not stock (like many here)
c) These are just my opinions based on my personality. Yours may differ
Coincidentally, I just drove a Boxster S last night. After five miles or so, I was extremely disappointed. I felt that the drive was very sterile. The engine noise was uninspiring until you go to the high RPMs. Below 5-6K, it sounds more like a turbine. The steering gives you some feel but I thought slightly rubbery. The shifter, however, I like. I've always been partial to the snick-snick feel of the cable Boxster/996 shifter although some here prefer the more direct mechanical 993 shifter. The car definitely has some go (after all, we're talking about the S here) and has a nimble chassis, changing lanes easily, probably due to both a short wheelbase and mid-engine design (lower polar of momentum). Overall, however, I was left with the feeling that a certain emotion or joie de vive was missing from the car. A big disappointment after reading about the raves from auto mag journalists.
Then, I dropped the top and the whole world changed around me. I then realized what the Boxster's mission is and life driving the Boxster became a lot more fun. I like the feeling of being coddled in the car with its high doors. It was the most fun convertible I've ever driven (but I haven't driven a 993 cab so who knows?). It was fun cruising down the main street of a hip part of the town, feeling the eyes on me (or rather, probably on the car).
IMHO, that sums the difference between the two cars. The 993 is clearly the sportscar, more so when you lower it and have the engine blowing through the RSRs. The Boxster, even in S form, is a sporty GT though I hear that they do great autox cars. Certainly less stressful to drive in traffic and would do great as a daily driver. While I wouldn't mind having the Boxster as an addition to the 993 (I've fantasized about having my future wife drive one!), I would take the 993 over the Boxster anyday if I had to choose.
09-26-2003, 02:53 PM
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I sold my boxster for a 993, so you can imagine where this is going...
From a depreciation standpoint, you hit it on the head. Plenty of boxsters out there, hit harder than most in this economy, they are bound to continue falling in prices, though for your money you could get a relatively recent model and benefit from this....
Other points:
- if I was out of warranty - or shortly so, I'd rather have the 993, as it's easier to work on, in my opinion of a higher quality, has less computerized stuff, and no rear main seal issues like a lot of 986s...
- From a looks/rarity stand point, nobody even looks twice at a boxster anymore, the 993 is still a relatively rare car and draws attention (good or bad, up to you)
- You won't hear that you bought the poor man's Porsche if you get a 993 (not that I agree with that opinion but it gets tiresome to defend your car)
- Driving wise? Tough call. The boxster is a superb handling car, if tricky at the limit (my opinion) especially in the wet due to the central engine. I like the Torque of the 993's 3.6L engine vs that of the 3.2 on the boxster S. The boxster feels and handles more like a new car, and if power were equal it would probably trounce the 993. But they're not equal unless you drop a 996 engine into it ;-) The drop top aspect can be nice but it can also be a pain (bad vis, clouding plastic window depending on year, less room, some mroe flex and noises). Personally I got tired of it and love the lines of the 993 coupé, and the bigger cabin space.
In the end I like(d) both cars, really, but the 993 is such an iconic car, probably the prettiest 911 ever designed aside from the 73RS, that it's the one I'd like to keep. The Boxster is a little more "flavor of the month" and "the affordable porsche" and it's hard to shake that undeserved image..That and porsche flooded the market with the things... but I find it beautiful as well... Drive a 993, if you can get past the older interior, you won't even hesitate !
From a depreciation standpoint, you hit it on the head. Plenty of boxsters out there, hit harder than most in this economy, they are bound to continue falling in prices, though for your money you could get a relatively recent model and benefit from this....
Other points:
- if I was out of warranty - or shortly so, I'd rather have the 993, as it's easier to work on, in my opinion of a higher quality, has less computerized stuff, and no rear main seal issues like a lot of 986s...
- From a looks/rarity stand point, nobody even looks twice at a boxster anymore, the 993 is still a relatively rare car and draws attention (good or bad, up to you)
- You won't hear that you bought the poor man's Porsche if you get a 993 (not that I agree with that opinion but it gets tiresome to defend your car)
- Driving wise? Tough call. The boxster is a superb handling car, if tricky at the limit (my opinion) especially in the wet due to the central engine. I like the Torque of the 993's 3.6L engine vs that of the 3.2 on the boxster S. The boxster feels and handles more like a new car, and if power were equal it would probably trounce the 993. But they're not equal unless you drop a 996 engine into it ;-) The drop top aspect can be nice but it can also be a pain (bad vis, clouding plastic window depending on year, less room, some mroe flex and noises). Personally I got tired of it and love the lines of the 993 coupé, and the bigger cabin space.
In the end I like(d) both cars, really, but the 993 is such an iconic car, probably the prettiest 911 ever designed aside from the 73RS, that it's the one I'd like to keep. The Boxster is a little more "flavor of the month" and "the affordable porsche" and it's hard to shake that undeserved image..That and porsche flooded the market with the things... but I find it beautiful as well... Drive a 993, if you can get past the older interior, you won't even hesitate !
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09-26-2003, 03:38 PM
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Thanks much guys, and keep em coming if you would. I am leaning to the more classic 993, which I 've always loved. Also feel the Boxster will get hit worse over time in depreciation. Can you expand on the 993 in a couple ways? #1 I'll probably go coupe, but is there a big diff in coupe to cab performance. I know M3 cab is much heavier and .8 seconds slower 0-60. Is it that different on a 993? 2) How does 993 handle compared to my previous 84 Carrera? I ask because I learned the limits of mine in a declining radius turn that I spun the back out and hit a wall on the front then the back. ONly going about 50, and all that was hurt was my pride (and the car). That was years ago. Is the feel of the 993 similar or was the rear engine effect lessened with the 993's upgraded suspension and such? IT was a learning experience to say the least. Of course I had 16" tires and no mods on the 84. Thanks again, a big help!!!
09-26-2003, 04:10 PM
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this is rather simple. the two cars are so different in handling and overall feel. just test drive them and you will know what you want.
09-26-2003, 05:12 PM
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>Thanks much guys, and keep em coming if you would.
Ok then...
>but is there a big diff in coupe to cab performance.
A cab will flex more but since you don't plan on tracking it, no big deal. Back to depreciation for a minute, cabs seem to go cheaper than coupes these days, either that or there are a lot more of them for sale it seems. Personally if I was gonna go for a cab, I'd get a boxter, it was designed as a cab and is more modern in that respect. I love the 993s lines, so coupé is my first choice... Other than my personal bias, the 993 cab accelerates pretty much just as well as the coupe...
>2) How does 993 handle compared to my previous 84 Carrera?
I had an 83, so I have an opinion on that too... Different beast due to power steering, bigger engine, better gearbox, different suspension.. Overall, same feel but more refined, way more comfortable (yet efficient, not plush), it has more grip thanks to the LSA rear suspension. It's in a different category altogether as far as engine power and everything is assisted or smoother than in the 84 (yes that includes shifting). However, when sitting behind the wheel, you'll feel like you're in the 84, all the stuff looks the same and is in the same spot (great) but looks old compared to the boxster ! (bad) Much as I love the 993 I think they could have modernized the dash/door panels/shifter console a bit more back then !
> I ask because I learned the limits of mine in a declining radius turn that I spun the back out and hit a wall on the front then the back.
Hmm... my 83 would always send me a page, a fax, and tap me on the shoulder before spinning. I never understood that bad 911 reputation, so I got nothing to say here... Yes, they spin, but you have to be pretty ham fisted or have a pretty numb butt to not feel it coming... Maybe there was oil on the road you spun on ! ;-) The 993 is better at this game at any rate.
>That was years ago. Is the feel of the 993 similar or was the rear engine effect lessened with the 993's upgraded suspension and such?
It's less noticeable but still noticeable, the engine is after all still in the back and, if anything, even heavier !!! The rear engine is still great for grip under acceleration, weight transfer under braking, and good clean fun. Same user's manual applies when it comes to turns: In slow, feed power gently till the the rear end squats down on the road, then nail the gas to come out of the turn like a bullet ! Grip wise, that engine layout is killer to exit out of a turn faster that most cars! Occasionally lift gently to tighten a widening turn radius, great fun...
Come in too fast, and be prepared to "deal" if you lift. That hasn't changed but has been lessened... the boxster is easier to drive at 9/10ths, much easier IMHO, but once it's going, it's Gone ! I think the 911 is more predictable...
Ok then...
>but is there a big diff in coupe to cab performance.
A cab will flex more but since you don't plan on tracking it, no big deal. Back to depreciation for a minute, cabs seem to go cheaper than coupes these days, either that or there are a lot more of them for sale it seems. Personally if I was gonna go for a cab, I'd get a boxter, it was designed as a cab and is more modern in that respect. I love the 993s lines, so coupé is my first choice... Other than my personal bias, the 993 cab accelerates pretty much just as well as the coupe...
>2) How does 993 handle compared to my previous 84 Carrera?
I had an 83, so I have an opinion on that too... Different beast due to power steering, bigger engine, better gearbox, different suspension.. Overall, same feel but more refined, way more comfortable (yet efficient, not plush), it has more grip thanks to the LSA rear suspension. It's in a different category altogether as far as engine power and everything is assisted or smoother than in the 84 (yes that includes shifting). However, when sitting behind the wheel, you'll feel like you're in the 84, all the stuff looks the same and is in the same spot (great) but looks old compared to the boxster ! (bad) Much as I love the 993 I think they could have modernized the dash/door panels/shifter console a bit more back then !
> I ask because I learned the limits of mine in a declining radius turn that I spun the back out and hit a wall on the front then the back.
Hmm... my 83 would always send me a page, a fax, and tap me on the shoulder before spinning. I never understood that bad 911 reputation, so I got nothing to say here... Yes, they spin, but you have to be pretty ham fisted or have a pretty numb butt to not feel it coming... Maybe there was oil on the road you spun on ! ;-) The 993 is better at this game at any rate.
>That was years ago. Is the feel of the 993 similar or was the rear engine effect lessened with the 993's upgraded suspension and such?
It's less noticeable but still noticeable, the engine is after all still in the back and, if anything, even heavier !!! The rear engine is still great for grip under acceleration, weight transfer under braking, and good clean fun. Same user's manual applies when it comes to turns: In slow, feed power gently till the the rear end squats down on the road, then nail the gas to come out of the turn like a bullet ! Grip wise, that engine layout is killer to exit out of a turn faster that most cars! Occasionally lift gently to tighten a widening turn radius, great fun...
Come in too fast, and be prepared to "deal" if you lift. That hasn't changed but has been lessened... the boxster is easier to drive at 9/10ths, much easier IMHO, but once it's going, it's Gone ! I think the 911 is more predictable...
09-26-2003, 05:13 PM
#11
Welcome Len,
Like others said, you should drive both and pick whichever one you prefer. They are very different cars.
But looking at your initial email and the 12 cars you listed, I have one simple question, was the 84 Carrera your favorite? If so, get the 993. If not, get the Boxster.
Good luck,
Like others said, you should drive both and pick whichever one you prefer. They are very different cars.
But looking at your initial email and the 12 cars you listed, I have one simple question, was the 84 Carrera your favorite? If so, get the 993. If not, get the Boxster.
Good luck,
09-26-2003, 05:16 PM
#12
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My friend has a Boxter S. I really had a blast driving it. I can see where all the raves are coming from. Its alos a very good - looking car IMO. That said, its just not a 993. I absolutely love driving my car. I have another friend with a 996 TT. Great car, feels like a Vette. 993 the best 911 ever built IMVHO.
My assistant hit the nail on the head, she said " Your car looks sexy and sporty, his is cute"
Nuff said
My assistant hit the nail on the head, she said " Your car looks sexy and sporty, his is cute"
Nuff said
09-26-2003, 06:50 PM
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I'm with the others; YOU have to decide - drive both and make up your own mind. RE financial (long term value) - if you're buying a car you intend to drive and you're worried about depreciation/long term value, I say forget it. You're not going to make enuf on the depreciation difference to buy another house, put your rug rat thru college, or retire. So, buy the one you like the best from looks/driving standpoint and let your paid overtime/stock market investments/E-Bay sales/whatever make you rich (kidding!).
Only personal biases I feel is that the 993 is more reliable than the Boxster for high mileages. Mine has seen 4-6 track events and 3-5 autocrosses a year, has 75k+ miles on it, and still runs like new (original clutch/tranny). Solmehow I don't feel I'd get this dependability on a newer water pumper. I haven't driven a Boxster but did drive a 996, and felt all the wonderful driver feel you get thru the steering and backside in a 993 was dampened out.
Only personal biases I feel is that the 993 is more reliable than the Boxster for high mileages. Mine has seen 4-6 track events and 3-5 autocrosses a year, has 75k+ miles on it, and still runs like new (original clutch/tranny). Solmehow I don't feel I'd get this dependability on a newer water pumper. I haven't driven a Boxster but did drive a 996, and felt all the wonderful driver feel you get thru the steering and backside in a 993 was dampened out.