NP993

What about engine tray removal on the 964 vs 993?

timothymoffat

Don't forget about which oil to use when deciding on engine tray removal.

The Brewmeister

Both cars need to be appreciated for their place and time in the evolution of the 911 model line. As others have already stated the 964 was a huge jump from the 3.2 Carrera. The jump from 964 to 993 wasn't nearly as much.

pmalenfa

+1... I had a 964 like yours and it was a great car. IMHO, the differences of the 993 does not worth as much as the market difference (like 10k$ for NA models). I mean...:
- Who care about doing a valve adjustment once in a while?
- If that 6th gear soooo important, why am I not using it that much?
- If my rear suspension is so much better, why am I thinking of lowering?

What create that price difference? Ourselves..., 993 buyers.

Why did I paid more? For me, it's a lot on the "Last of air cooled" and "spartan interior". You sit in the 993 and you feel the classic era. I like the "modern" look and the "curves" of the 993 as well. The impression of the "best of both world", modern and classic.

We create the price difference, we are a little crazy, emotionnals. But certainly not as much as a Dino buyer...

Pierre

pirahna

I don't see much if any difference in price between NB 993's and NB 964's anymore. They are both great cars buy the best car you can afford and the one that speaks to you when you drive it.

Dan V

Yep, 964 & 993 are 2 sides of the same great air-cooled coin.

Hi Rev V8

Currently I have started to search for a nice 964 C2 or 993 C2. I think both of these cars are fantastic. I am a longtime car enthusiast and have driven many Porsches over the years and have helped friends buy a number of cars. I am also a hands on enthusiast and do all my own work on a number of old collector cars, including helping friends with their 356 and 3.2 Carerrra. I missed a golden opportunity in 1998 to buy a new Guards Red C2S in LA, and have regretted that decision to this day. I think there are pluses and minuses with both the 964 and 993. The 993 is simply gorgeous, but the 964 is also a wonderful looking car. Today I saw a wonderful 964 C4 in Carerra White, and it looked superb. From a technical standpoint the 993 is an upgrade, but I don't think it is that large. The 964 is a much bigger upgrade to the 3.2 Carerra (another great car that I still enjoy driving). One of the major issues that I'm pondering is whether I go with an OBD II car (96-98), or stick with a 95 (OBD I) or with a 964. The SAI ports can be a problem in the 993s, and this is more difficult with an OBD II car. Unfortunately I live in Vancouver, Canada and we have to put our cars through emission testing every year. In my other old collector cars (all carburetors) I have been successful in calibrating the car for the test and then reverting back to a reasonable calibration. I have worked with OBD I and II on other cars, but have no direct experience with the Bosch ECU on 993s. I'm trying to do as much research as possible before I make any decisions. It is my understanding that if the SAI ports are clogged it will trip a CEL light on the ECU and the only solution is to drop the engine and pull the top end and clean out the SAI ports. I have looked at this and it doesn't look that difficult. Anyone with direct experience with the Bosch ECU and turning off fault codes. In Vancouver if the vehicle has a visible CEL then the vehicle automatically fails the test.

Chris M.

This is true. When I was in the market in 04 the difference between a 993 and 964 was over $10K which was why I ended up with a 964. You could buy a decent sub 100K 964 for high teens but when I got back in the market in 2012 this was not the case. There were few 964s out there for less than low $20s and there were a fair number of 993s below $30K.

During my 964 ownership I always had 993 envy. I just prefer the looks, especially the rear, and the dual exhaust. There isn't enough difference in any other area, to me, that separates them. Having said that, I would take a lowered 964 on 18s over a bone stock 993 nb any day of the week.

SleepRM3

I would love to add a '92 964 C2 Coupe. Both series are great cars!

Ha ha. Mine still has the entire under panel and engine tray cover installed.

Bill Verburg

Because you are saddled w/ a gear stack designed by a US bureaucrat not an engineer, this why 993 re-gearing is such a desirable project
Here you can compare the various transmissions, generally the lower lines are more desireable from a performance perspective





964 lost a lot of structural rigidity because of the removal of the transverse torsion bar tube, this was a major complaint wrt 964 and it was a primary goal to have rectified w/ the 993 redesign, the base suspensions used on either left a lot to be desired, but the RS & Cup options are great, particularly if the shocks are redone w/ modern digressive valving. The 964 suspension is still very crude compared to 993 and still incorporates the older 911 semi-trailing arm design which is fine most of the time but w/o the stiffening of the t-bar tube it is not a big step forward from the 911. Most of the front redesign was aimed at implementing abs an isolating the driver from the road, Porsche realized the error of their ways and went back to more sporting setting from what is essentially the same front suspension used on the 964, these differences, some small(a little more scrub radius, a little more caster) and some large(al vs steel wheel carriers for 2kg less unsprung weight/corner 12% quicker steering ratio) make a huge difference in the feel of the cars

I certainly very much prefer the aesthetics of the 993 to the 964, but that's like women, some prefer blonds, some brunettes

Quadcammer

please tell me you're joking...please

morsini

He's from Montreal - they're incapable.

Ed Hughes

Do a longer search-you can clean ports with engine in place. '95 OBD1 doesn't get the fault code.

Mike J

Ok, a few comments.

I also am in Vancouver so...

1 -Aircare on the 993's is only every two years, not every year, and they do not hook up to the car. Its a two year test cycle for 1992 and younger vehicles, so you only have to test every TWO years.

2 - Aircare does not plug into the computers of most of the 993's, that is only 1998 and younger. So, even if you have a check engine light for SAI issues, you warm the car up, clear the code with a cheap ODBII tool, and Aircare it or just pull the bulb. As long as the engine is running well and the Cat is working, you will pass for the next two years.

3 - There are various approaches to SAI issues, and the first one people try is to blow/flush out the ports. You do not have to drop the engine, or drop the "heads", it can be done in the car no problem. If it gets serious and the passages are really plugged, there are several approaches, you can try the electronic solution (with mixed success), run outside air tubes from the pump to the exhaust to bypass the passages, or drop the engine and pull the heads.

4 - The chances of SAI issues seems to correlate to oil consumptions via valve guide wear. If the car consumes oil, there tends to be coking at the base of the exhaust valve due to burnt oil, and that coking can help blocking the ports. However, its not guaranteed to happen (what I mean is not every 993 will do this), I have several 993's coming through the shop, and none have this issue. We have done flushes and cleanings as preventative measures though.

5 - The upside of a 95 is the ODBI system will not catch SAI issues, the downside is those cars usually have a hard time handling upgrades such as a RS lightened flywheel.

Cheers,

Mike

nathan1

I own both a 1995 993 and a 1993 RSA. Both cars are absolutely spectacular cars and I think we are splitting hairs sometimes. My overall summary:

964-

The gearing is much better than the 993.
I like the traditional front fenders
Interior build quality seems better
Much harder to find a nice C2 coupe vs. 993 (esp the desirable 92-94 models) as production in those years was VERY low. Porsche nearly went extinct.

993:

More absolute power (although frankly the 964 feels stronger around town due to gearing, roll on side by side from 50 mph + the 993 will pull slightly away)
More predictable handling at the limit (although both my cars are heavily modified in the suspension dept)
Much sexier rear end and hips
Quieter and smoother ride

Buy the best car you can afford and that you love and don't worry about what each camp has to say. Both are incredible!