964 vs 993
02-28-2013, 06:06 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
964 vs 993
Hey folks,
Been looking at auto trader (not to buy, just curious) and I have noticed that the 993's really hold the money..starting at £20K up to £70k.
Although I would always default for the 964 as I do prefer the upright lights. I am developing a soft spot for the 993 and if I had the money would love one in my stable.
I know that the 993 was a leap on from the 964, however am I right in thinking that they share the same platform, engine, components etc... etc...
So my question is....What sets them so far apart on price???
No 964 bashing please....
Been looking at auto trader (not to buy, just curious) and I have noticed that the 993's really hold the money..starting at £20K up to £70k.
Although I would always default for the 964 as I do prefer the upright lights. I am developing a soft spot for the 993 and if I had the money would love one in my stable.
I know that the 993 was a leap on from the 964, however am I right in thinking that they share the same platform, engine, components etc... etc...
So my question is....What sets them so far apart on price???
No 964 bashing please....
02-28-2013, 06:12 PM
#2
964s are great.
I think the 993 holds better value for a few reasons:
*Last of the air-cooled 911s.
*More power than the 964
*Better rear suspension
*More refined than the 964
*Self adjusting valve lifters on the 993 and some other improvements over the 964
There are other reasons, but those are few big objective ones.
Some also say the 993 is better looking, and I agree from the rear it does, but I think the 964 is a damn good looking Porsche and I actually prefer the upright headlamp style to the 993 at times.
They are both great models, and one would be fortunate to own either.
I think the 993 holds better value for a few reasons:
*Last of the air-cooled 911s.
*More power than the 964
*Better rear suspension
*More refined than the 964
*Self adjusting valve lifters on the 993 and some other improvements over the 964
There are other reasons, but those are few big objective ones.
Some also say the 993 is better looking, and I agree from the rear it does, but I think the 964 is a damn good looking Porsche and I actually prefer the upright headlamp style to the 993 at times.
They are both great models, and one would be fortunate to own either.
02-28-2013, 06:20 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
This is where opinions differ. The upright lights on pre-89's and their fenders look better than the 964, IMO. Those I like. But the swept back 993 lights are sexier.
02-28-2013, 06:39 PM
#6
993 improved on much of what was in the 964, I'm not bashing 964s just pointing out that 993 was improved in many ways from that starting point, similarly 996 is mostly improved on 993(w/ some glaring exceptions) and 997 improved on 996
start w/ chassis - 993 is 20% stiffer and has the multi-link rear suspension, 964 base aero is slightly better mostly because of the 993s greater frontal cross section. Otherwise mostly the same but w/ some minor changes like in the HVAC system. 993 cabin is quiter because the glass was raised closer to the skin slipstream.
brakes - 993 are bigger stronger and will last longer even in base form, 993RS are some of the best ever put on any car to that time, 993 ABS is improved over 964 w/ faster cycle times, pedal ratio is improved to include linearly rising rate
transmission - 993 6 speed vs 964 5 speed, US cars are handicapped by a poor choice of gearing RoW, RS and Cup aren't, the 5 speed gearing isn't any better, 993 did get much better asymmetric 4 plate lsds, 964 had 2 platers that are difficult to update because of the case dimensions.
suspension - 993 both front and rear were resigned w/ lighter/stiffer components and tuned for a more sporting feel, wider wheels were available oe
engines - 964 250hp@6100, 31.6MKP@4800, 993272@6100, 33@5500 for non vram, 285hp@6100, 34.7MKP@5250 for vram, 300hp@6500, 346.2MKP@5500 for vram,
if you are thinking awd, 993 uses a lighter simpler much more reliable system that is at the same time sportier and can be modified as the 2wd versions can be modified
start w/ chassis - 993 is 20% stiffer and has the multi-link rear suspension, 964 base aero is slightly better mostly because of the 993s greater frontal cross section. Otherwise mostly the same but w/ some minor changes like in the HVAC system. 993 cabin is quiter because the glass was raised closer to the skin slipstream.
brakes - 993 are bigger stronger and will last longer even in base form, 993RS are some of the best ever put on any car to that time, 993 ABS is improved over 964 w/ faster cycle times, pedal ratio is improved to include linearly rising rate
transmission - 993 6 speed vs 964 5 speed, US cars are handicapped by a poor choice of gearing RoW, RS and Cup aren't, the 5 speed gearing isn't any better, 993 did get much better asymmetric 4 plate lsds, 964 had 2 platers that are difficult to update because of the case dimensions.
suspension - 993 both front and rear were resigned w/ lighter/stiffer components and tuned for a more sporting feel, wider wheels were available oe
engines - 964 250hp@6100, 31.6MKP@4800, 993272@6100, 33@5500 for non vram, 285hp@6100, 34.7MKP@5250 for vram, 300hp@6500, 346.2MKP@5500 for vram,
if you are thinking awd, 993 uses a lighter simpler much more reliable system that is at the same time sportier and can be modified as the 2wd versions can be modified
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02-28-2013, 06:46 PM
#8
Another improvement I noticed is a protective panel by the timing belt on the 993 to prevent the belt's exposure to carbon monoxide.
What was found in the 964 was that their timing belts degraded much quicker because of this exposure.
What was found in the 964 was that their timing belts degraded much quicker because of this exposure.
02-28-2013, 06:54 PM
#9
The only timing belt I can think of is in the distributor, by the end on '93 964s had the same vent kit as is used on 993s installed. Prior to that ozone build up inside the distributor was a problem as far as belt life was concerned
02-28-2013, 06:56 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
It is a vent kit, that uses the fan to remove ozone from the timing belt area on the distributor, which caused the degradation.
02-28-2013, 06:57 PM
#11
another thread here reminded me 993 OBD2 used on US 993 from '96 on is a potential nightmare especially in areas that require DME interogation as part of the annual inspection procedure, they seem to have gotten a handle on it for 996 up but on those year 993s I wouldn't want one
02-28-2013, 07:10 PM
#12
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Do a search - this has been discussed about a bazillion times, and I seem to remember a thread quite recently..... lots of this discussion on all the major Porsche lists as well (like Pelican).
The ODB 1 vs 2 argument always surfaces, I think the validity of that varies depending on where you live and your emissions testing area, the shape of the engine, and of course if you have ODB 1 (early 993), conversion to RS Flywheels is often problematic - so its a trade off no matter which way you go.
At the end the choice is yours - drive both, look at both and go with your gut! Simple and easy, its really a first-world problem to decide which Porsche to buy. :-)
Bill, I think you had a long thread on the differences on Pelican? - can't quite remember.
Cheers
Mike
The ODB 1 vs 2 argument always surfaces, I think the validity of that varies depending on where you live and your emissions testing area, the shape of the engine, and of course if you have ODB 1 (early 993), conversion to RS Flywheels is often problematic - so its a trade off no matter which way you go.
At the end the choice is yours - drive both, look at both and go with your gut! Simple and easy, its really a first-world problem to decide which Porsche to buy. :-)
Bill, I think you had a long thread on the differences on Pelican? - can't quite remember.
Cheers
Mike
02-28-2013, 08:36 PM
#15
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LOTS of threads on this subject both here and on the 964 board (and 911UK).
The 993 is an evolution of the 964, the 964 an evolution of the "G" series, and so on back to the original. IMHO, the 964 was a much bigger step, technically speaking at least, than the 993. It introduced power steering, ABS, airbags and a host of other improvements to the ageing 911. The 993 refined and improved these systems, added a new rear suspension, a 6th gear to the transmission, and wrapped it in a body that saw its most significant change since the original.
There are pros and cons to each series of cars relative to technical issues but from an owner's or enthusiast's standpoint, the decision on which car is best is purely subjective. Personally, I love both generations equally. Styling of both is an evolution of the original, and personal preference is just that, personal. I prefer the 964's interior but that's my opinion.
As to "why are 964s cheaper?", its simply a case of age, miles, and condition. At this stage, all 964s and 993s are old cars and value is determined by condition and history more than anything. A good 964 can easily cost more than a 993 if everything is "right". There were slightly more 993s built than 964s by the way which makes the hunt for the "right" 993 SLIGHTLY easier (not much). Finally, it seems that a good, reasonable mile, manual transmission 964C2 coupe is getting VERY difficult to locate and prices reflect this (I know because I've been looking......a really good 964 or 993 is NOT cheap anymore).
The 993 is an evolution of the 964, the 964 an evolution of the "G" series, and so on back to the original. IMHO, the 964 was a much bigger step, technically speaking at least, than the 993. It introduced power steering, ABS, airbags and a host of other improvements to the ageing 911. The 993 refined and improved these systems, added a new rear suspension, a 6th gear to the transmission, and wrapped it in a body that saw its most significant change since the original.
There are pros and cons to each series of cars relative to technical issues but from an owner's or enthusiast's standpoint, the decision on which car is best is purely subjective. Personally, I love both generations equally. Styling of both is an evolution of the original, and personal preference is just that, personal. I prefer the 964's interior but that's my opinion.
As to "why are 964s cheaper?", its simply a case of age, miles, and condition. At this stage, all 964s and 993s are old cars and value is determined by condition and history more than anything. A good 964 can easily cost more than a 993 if everything is "right". There were slightly more 993s built than 964s by the way which makes the hunt for the "right" 993 SLIGHTLY easier (not much). Finally, it seems that a good, reasonable mile, manual transmission 964C2 coupe is getting VERY difficult to locate and prices reflect this (I know because I've been looking......a really good 964 or 993 is NOT cheap anymore).