Coyote

Oh, and this car sounds pretty good to me and a pretty fair price considering all that is done. Worth paying a premium if all that work has been done up to snuff! I'm excited for you! Nothing better than picking up a new 993!!

blacksparrow

Just wanted to get any feedback from you guys while I await the leakdown numbers today…

The mechanic, Seth, says overall the car is very clean and everything works… no little bits broken, like sunroof, rear wing, etc. Everything operates, as it should. Body is good, no repairs. Paint is all-original, he used a depth tester. It is in a condition as stated earlier and needs a heavy detail.

MAIN QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS WHO KNOW THESE ENGINES:
This was an interesting observation by the mechanic. He noted that while they did reseal everything, they used the later black sealant for water-cooled cars, Boxter, etc. He did not know if this would be an issue in the air cooed higher temp motor and also noted that the sealer to Cam towers was the lock-tite that is normally specked, which they use at his shop. He was not sure why they used two types. Any thoughts on this and how it might affect the car in the future? It would be much appreciated.

To that note, the dealer reemphasized that the engine was not rebuilt, but resealed due to leaking issues and while they were in they decided to do the Exhaust valves, as they have known issues leaking. They did use aftermarket valves, hard to confirm which brand. The heads were tested, the engine was resealed, and not machined in any way when put back together, according to the mechanic (who knows the machine shop they used and says they are not capable of that). So bottom line, consider the engine a reseal of existing parts, with the bonus of new guides and drilled out SAI ports.

He had a similar take as some of you here, questioning why they didn’t do more when they had it opened up, but thinks the car is solid, so we are doing the leakdown to see where the engine stands now.

Rear Main Seal – said it is damp on the transmission side, but un-sure if it was just because they cleaned it poorly before they put it back together.

Limited Slip - Dead, no surprise there.

Suspension – Original bushings look to be in good shape, shocks need to go. He could not confirm the part numbers on the control arms in rear end… still trying to get that.

He found a cracked fuel line that needs to be replaced.

Say brake pads (not rotors) were just done, as stated and new tires, as stated.

I am sure there is more to come. Any other thoughts appreciated… stay tuned!

blacksparrow

Technical-Dimensions
6920 Beach Blvd
Jacksonville, Florida
32216
904.721.9700
www.Technical-Dimensions.com
Pre-purchase Inspection

o Brakes Front and rear pads and rotors Ok- almost 100% pad wear remaining. Rotors not new but in good shape, 1mm lip. Brake hose ok. No fluid leaks

o Suspension All ok- control arm bushings and shocks in good shape. Tie rod ends no play, no tears in dust boots

o Engine No major oil leakages. Very minor weepage at this time from chain housing covers- likely chain housing and/or covers (magnesium) have some pitting which reduces the likely hood of good seal. Should be machined flat all surfaces for optimal sealing. Oil residue on bellhousing of tranny- likely remaining fluid from engine prior to removal. Note: Cam towers sealed with Loctite 574, engine case has been sealed with the later RTV type black sealant (P96/P97 type). No case leakages present but factory calls for Loctite 574 for engine case reseals. After sitting overnight, lifters are very noisy (leaks down). Don’t quite down and pump up until engine oil temp has come up to operating.

o Compression Engine compression numbers are very good- 225PSI ALL cylinders

o Transmission Operates through all gears OK- option list indicates limited slip differential- either LSD is not present or clutch packs are worn out- only one wheel spins when turned- LSD even with low % slip ratio should see both wheels turn in direction of travel in tandem*** If LSD is present, will need repack. Recommend Guards Transmission LSD- much better unit that OE

o Fueling -Fuel pump cover is moist with fuel. Removal of the cover shows no current hose actually wet, however it is likely the pressure line from the pump leaks at times- dry rotting, cracks are present** NEEDS new fuel line from pump, preferably feed hose replaced at that time also*

o Exhaust Good shape- no perforations or leaks

o Electronic control units No faults present in DME, climate control, Alarm or ABS

o Tires/Wheels Tires New. Wheels not out of round. Few minor scratches.

o Lighting All ok except for left front fog light INOP

o Paint and Body Paint work appears original- 4.5-5 mils thickness –OK. LOTS of wash swirls, multiple stone chips and some scratches on most body panels. Some have been touched up- none are through primer but most scratches are through paint surface. Needs thorough detail with compounding

o Accessories All Functional

o Windows/Glass OK, no cracked glass or significant pitting

o HVAC Blows cold

o Service History Only (1) record avail- engine tear down from Brumes Porsche

blacksparrow

Seth, the mechanic, stated to me when I questioned him, that it was not useful to do a leak down, as he did a compression test first, and ALL cyl are at 225psi, (well one was 224psi), he says there is no reason to do a leak down with these type of compression numbers.

From what I gather, he felt that since the engine had just had top end work and was re-sealed, that he would run compression first... then follow up with leak down if there was an issue. FYI, he seems extremely knowledgeable about these cars when spoken too, for what that is worth?!

Just want some thoughts on this approach, as everyone here seems to want the leak down figures?

Quadcammer

tell him to do the leakdown whether he thinks its worth it or not.

I'm surprised by rtv on the case..unusual for brumos.

Noisy lifters is odd too.

This PPI is no deal breaker from my opinion, but I'd look to get a discount or get some of these things fixed.

GET. THE. LEAKDOWN

blacksparrow

THANKS

It's totally odd, but I asked him for a leak down test and it is what I discussed with him, but he came back with the compression test, not what I expected, but by the time I was able to speak to him about everything, the dealer had picked up the car.... ugh.

Not to be completely thick, but I do understand that the leak down tells you what is going on specifically with each Cyl... but with his thinking if the compression is high, the leak down will not reveal anything further... in practical terms what is the flawed thinking here and what more might we discover?

Quadcammer

What if compression is high due to excessive carbon build up? Point is a car with good compression may not always have good leakdown and vice versa.

To be honest, if I had a choice, I'd go with leakdown over compression all day every day, but ideally, you get both.

You have nothing to lose by doing the leakdown, but a lot of things to gain.

NP993

I vote against doing the leakdown. 99.9% chance it's a total waste of money. Compression is perfect and the motor was just apart.

blacksparrow

Yes, Quadcammer, the sealant is a question... I would like any thoughts on that? The mechanic was not sure if it would make a difference, but did point it out as he does 993 motors... not sure if that sealer is as good for air cooled/higher temps... or maybe the inverse, is it newer and better?

He said the noisy lifter's were on cold start up and once up to temp it sounded normal... he said he does not think it is an issue, beyond the seals starting to leak overnight. That said, what are the longer term issues? Was am I looking at down the road here?

I agree, hoping they will fix the LSD as it was a specific option they listed to promote the car and one of the reasons I was interested... other things seem more minor and can be addressed.

Quadcammer, Understod, the car has gone back to the dealer already... and as NP993 states below, the engine was just apart, I am awaiting pix of the process, they are sending me... I will post them. Wish he had done the leak down as requested, not sure why he went this route.

NP993, that was my thought, just apart and reassembled with new valve guides, SAI port cleanout, and compression is strong... that said, i am a bit disappointed that the mechanic did not tell me he was doing compression only and not leak down as that is what I specifically asked for...

Rialas

Are Porsche offering you some sort of warranty?
If it was the spec I was looking for, I would have bought it on day one without a ppi, especially as its not from a back street garage. I'd be too worried that someone else would buy it from under my nose.

Re. stone chips.. If your particular with bodywork like I am, get the best bodyshop available, and get the front end done. All 993's attract stonechips like a magnet. Don't bother with a front stone guard (don't look great). Just redo if and when needed.
Go for it.

Coyote

+993!!
I think you have done your homework. Get them to repair the LSD and pull the trigger. This sounds like a great car that has all the potentially expensive stuff already done. Don't over think it and lose it to someone else! You won't regret it!

blacksparrow

Thanks Rialas, I am a little more cautious, it is the spec I want (or as close as I could find to it again), and I have been looking since letting one go about 5-6 months back that ended up with a bad cyl. after I PPI'd it... so I am gun-shy.

That said, I am working with a dealer and have deposit on the car, contract, etc. so I am not worried the will sell out from under me, they are very straight up and sales guy is cool, we are on the phone and emails a good bit thru this process and he has been quite patient and accommodating. John at Brumos, to give him a plug.

Also they are warranting the work for 2 years and entire power train for 90 days. Pretty awesome on a 17 year old car I think.

Lastly, the paint is what I will worry about AFTER I drive it back cross country, which makes that less stressful. But agreed, best body shop for P cars I can find and see what we can do to improve her standings in the paint dept.!

blacksparrow

Thx Coyote, I have tried... just got off the phone with my sales guy John... some good news for me, that may interest some of you on the sealant issue...

Straight from his tech, Porsche has told them to use the black sealant (and they can only warrant the work done as Porsche directs them) because they have head several more recent instances of reseals on 993s come back with leaks, more specifically the TT cars as he tells it, but they now call the RTV out for their reseals of the case on all 993's... spec'd direct from Porsche, so it was not a mistake. That answers that.

As for compression test I mentioned before, 225psi everywhere, but the tech says he has the numbers he originally did for leak down somewhere... he says he know for a fact they were all under 5%. remembers them all being around 3-4% after the aftermarket valve guides went in.

As for the LSD, he says that his tech just put it up and it is working, but that it is warranted, and I am making sure this will be honored at my local dealership before I drive it away.

Getting VERY close to having this done and driving a new (to me) 993!!!

You guys rock on here.

Quadcammer

I'd like to see that porsche technical memo that specs rtv. can you ask your mechanic provide that.

Maybe its just me, but I don't trust that guy.

blacksparrow

I'm game, I will ask dealer tech if he has something written from the homeland.

It sounded like something the tech had spoken to Porsche about directly and that is the direction they had given him, so who knows if it was written? Maybe he has it in an email.

Either way, I will have the warranty on that work that will be honored by any dealership for 2 years and that makes me feel better.

Maybe I am drinking the cool-aid, but at some point you have to trust people and he has done nothing but accommodate all my requests... in fact I should have the engine work pix this eve or in the am... which I will post.