Acceptable tolerances on paint meter?
12-23-2012, 06:44 PM
#1
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Acceptable tolerances on paint meter?
Considering a glacier white c4s and slowly moving forward with it.Had them paint meter the car and all panels (exception 1 rear panel) were between a 4.5 and 5.5.Dealer says thats normal tolerances but I'm not sure.rear was higher and has had a re-spray....ofcoarse nothing showing up on carfax/auto check.Just curious as to other's thoughts and opinion beofre I move forward with possible PPI.
12-23-2012, 07:24 PM
#3
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IIRC, those are within tolerances. A small difference could mean a clearcoat was re-done; not a big deal at all. My driver's side door read higher than the rest of the car, but it was patently obvious that no body work had ever been done since the doors were gutted for the roll cage bars, thereby revealing that no accident damage existed.
12-23-2012, 07:32 PM
#4
Personally, since these cars are all getting close to 20 years old, I'd imagine some paintwork, whether due to accident or just cosmetic re-spray is likely on many cars.
Original paint would likely be very pitted on the front and need a spray, so whatever premium one places on original paint would be mitigated by the fact it probably looks tired and needs a re-spray anyway.
I wouldn't let a paint meter make the choice for me, unless it was evidence of a major crash, in which case I'd hope the title was salvaged so I'd know to run away. But I don't think a paint meter can tell you anything other than whether it was painted, which, if it is, wouldn't be enough for me to walk from a really nice, well-maintained car with a comprehensive PPI first that came back clean.
Original paint would likely be very pitted on the front and need a spray, so whatever premium one places on original paint would be mitigated by the fact it probably looks tired and needs a re-spray anyway.
I wouldn't let a paint meter make the choice for me, unless it was evidence of a major crash, in which case I'd hope the title was salvaged so I'd know to run away. But I don't think a paint meter can tell you anything other than whether it was painted, which, if it is, wouldn't be enough for me to walk from a really nice, well-maintained car with a comprehensive PPI first that came back clean.
12-23-2012, 07:53 PM
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AS always thanks for all the quick responses.Car is on the west coast.....and i on the east.Been on the hunt for what seems like forever for a driver c4s and will probably be moving forward with a ppi soon if the seller isn't to firm on price.Car is consighned at a dealer......so it's already a game to say the least with them
12-23-2012, 08:03 PM
#7
Race Director
I have metered more than a few cars, variances of 1 - 1.5 mils is very common, when the numbers approach double what the surrounding panels are then investigate further. I've seen a few spots that couldn't be metered which usually indicates filler.
As with other PPI info take the readings as a data point and something to be considered with the rest of your data points when making a final decision.
Best of luck in your search.
As with other PPI info take the readings as a data point and something to be considered with the rest of your data points when making a final decision.
Best of luck in your search.
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12-23-2012, 08:37 PM
#8
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Thickness of the paint is not a big issue in my opinion. The presence of repaint noted by visual observation should always be looked into.
Repaint on bumper covers is normal as they get damaged easily. New paint on front ¼ panels is a sign of minor or possibly major body work.
Paint on rear 1/4 panels or on a dog leg should be looked into carefully as body work in these areas can be a serious integrity issue.
My experience is that if a Porsche has taken a major hit causing major unibody damage the tight ringing like sound the body/tires transmit into the car as it goes over uneven pavement will be lost after the repair is complete.
For example years ago I rolled into the rear of another car at very low speed- creeping at a light. The front of my car slid slightly under the rear bumper cover of the car in front of me with no hard impact. It slightly deformed the bumper cover and just caught the front edge of the hood and one of the 1/4 panels in front of the headlight bucket. I replace all three items, having them painted before installing them on the car resulting in a high quality repair that included all new parts. An expert would know there was paint work. The integrity of the car in this case was maintained.
In another case on an earlier car (924s) I owned was hit in the passenger side dog-leg. The shop welded in a large section of the outer body. After the repair the car did not sound right and road feel was diminished. A few thousand miles later the repair failed along one of the weld lines. The car was never the same even though it looked nice when originally repaired.
Andy
Repaint on bumper covers is normal as they get damaged easily. New paint on front ¼ panels is a sign of minor or possibly major body work.
Paint on rear 1/4 panels or on a dog leg should be looked into carefully as body work in these areas can be a serious integrity issue.
My experience is that if a Porsche has taken a major hit causing major unibody damage the tight ringing like sound the body/tires transmit into the car as it goes over uneven pavement will be lost after the repair is complete.
For example years ago I rolled into the rear of another car at very low speed- creeping at a light. The front of my car slid slightly under the rear bumper cover of the car in front of me with no hard impact. It slightly deformed the bumper cover and just caught the front edge of the hood and one of the 1/4 panels in front of the headlight bucket. I replace all three items, having them painted before installing them on the car resulting in a high quality repair that included all new parts. An expert would know there was paint work. The integrity of the car in this case was maintained.
In another case on an earlier car (924s) I owned was hit in the passenger side dog-leg. The shop welded in a large section of the outer body. After the repair the car did not sound right and road feel was diminished. A few thousand miles later the repair failed along one of the weld lines. The car was never the same even though it looked nice when originally repaired.
Andy
12-23-2012, 08:49 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Variances seem normal. I have metered a few cars as well. Big jumps like 5.5 to 8 require a closer look. Sounds like to you are proceeding properly with the whole long distance purchase thing. Call me paranoid but I prefer a quick video of the meter readings as opposed some still shots. 60 seconds of a video with a phone is easy.
12-23-2012, 08:55 PM
#11
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I would disagree with this. Any reading over 7 mil or so is highly suspect for a Porsche. 10 mil or so is either very thick paint, and not from the Porsche factory, or indicates filler underneath. While a visual inspection is very important, unless you do it all the time it can be hard to pick things up depending on the lighting, angle, etc. In a couple of minutes with a paint meter you can tell if if there has been paint work or not.
I would not really trust a car dealer with a paint meter. Unless you know it was calibrated, know the brand, and how to use it, I would have a third party do it. Ask me why.
I would not really trust a car dealer with a paint meter. Unless you know it was calibrated, know the brand, and how to use it, I would have a third party do it. Ask me why.
12-23-2012, 08:55 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
With the same meter go and measure a brand new car. The panels will measure differences all over them. The real key is to take several measurements over each panel and write them down over a pic of the car.
What you are looking for is consistency around the car. Variations are always going to be there (this is MICRONS! being measured) what you are looking for are BIG variations of 3 or more microns in a certain area that 's usually repaint.
What you are looking for is consistency around the car. Variations are always going to be there (this is MICRONS! being measured) what you are looking for are BIG variations of 3 or more microns in a certain area that 's usually repaint.
12-23-2012, 09:15 PM
#15
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Typical Porsche paint will run anywhere from 4.5-7, (in fact only seeing a range of 4.5-5.5 is highly unusual, and I would bet if they put the paint meter in more spots on the car they would see a little wider range). I typically hit about 10 points on each panel for comparison. Occasionally you might find an 8. Door jambs are usually thinner anywhere around 3-4. Once you start seeing 9's and 10's, the car has had paint work. I have seen repaints regularly register in the high 20's, and mid teens are very common on cars that have had paint work. Ideally you want to compare side to side for similar readings. If you see 3's on main panels, it is possible a panel was replaced and the paint laid very thin.
http://rennsportkc.com/ppis-the-paint-meter-never-lies/
http://rennsportkc.com/ppis-the-paint-meter-never-lies/