Juha G

I thought I'd post a new topic since my "Winter projects 2012" was about the TPC supercharger kit installation (+ some other stuff as well) and that was completed and it works well.
This topic is about improving the charge air cooling for track duty.

As a background, I have the TPC provided water/air intercooler setup. More info in my thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ml#post9780668


I ran the car at track about two weeks ago and did not get good enough results. And here is what I think is causing it:

At street with sudden ”bursts” the charge air cooling system works well.
At steady speed the IAT is 10*C over the ambient.
When on boost it quickly rises to 30-40*C over ambient and then when let off the gas, it cools back to ambient +10*C within 30seconds.

The problem at track is that I am not doing sudden bursts (and letting the liquid cool in between the bursts) but I am instead almost all the time on full boost.
What ends up happening is that the cooler up front is not adequate to cool down the liquid which is carrying the heat transferred by the IC from the intake and as a result the liquid heats up.
When the deltaT (between the liquid and the intake air) becomes very narrow, the IC is not able to transfer the heat out of the intake air into the liquid and results in deteriorated cooling effect.
This is obvious even by just feeling with your hand; after street driving the IC is cool to the touch but after track work (even when engine turned off and SC not creating anymore heat) the IC is very hot. It means the liquid inside is hot too.

This could be improved with a more effective cooler(s) up front but until what point? Next bottleneck will be the IC itself…

I think it is safe to say that this IC system works very well on a street car but it is almost useless at track.
Actually on the street it is even better than an air/air IC as it cools down the intake (and keeps the IC cool) even when idling at a stop light (because the liquid is still running around in the system).

So I learned about these new GT2RS intercoolers, which based on several tests, prove out to be the best bang for the buck one can get.
I ordered a set (about 1000Eur delivered) and received them today.

Now looking at the huge size, I am thinking maybe I should try out fitting just one first and see how it works. This could be done with very minor modifications.

ilko

Subscribed!

Toddster

Subscribed
Cant wait to hear more

Flying Finn

Very interesting.

If one doesn't work, can you fit them both into the engine compartment?

Just thinking since you're going to get those flares soon, have you considered placing them similarly to GT2RS (& RUF also has done it earlier)?

Juha G

I think I will just go ahead and install both intercoolers. I just received the GT2 wing/tailbase and it looks much more promising now. There is an additional 200mm in width of the opening in the tailbase top (vs. the 3.8RS wing I have on right now).

I think locating the coolers in the rear quarters/bumbers would require a significant amount of bodywork (even in GT2 width). Keep it simple stupid is my motto.

windydog

Juha,
I really like your posts. To bad you are not in the states, I bet there are a ton of guys here who would do a "G" job for you just for the chance to work with you in person. Me being the first one!

For those who don't know what a "G" job is: In aerospace it means a "Free fabrication."

Juha G

Thanks for the kind words!

Funny enough, I used to terrorise Homestead/Sebring/Moroso with Flying Finn just a couple of years ago but relocated back to Finland after my business in '08.

ilko

Juha, if you need to downsize the intercoolers due to lack of space you might want to stop by a VW/Audi tuning shop in your area and see what stock ICs they have lying around. A lot of 1.8T and 2.7TT guys dump their stock SMICs for larger FMICs. You'll probably be able to pick up a couple for peanuts and you'll know they have solid build quality.

Flying Finn

Great motto! Yeah, with that wing, you seem to have a lot of room and that will keep the tubing shorter.

You had a good reason to move so I won't give you hard time and also, the buddy of yours there with the know-how and out of to box approach would be the missing element if you were here.
Plus you have ton of time for projects during the winter months (have to look at the bright side)!

doc_porsche

great concept

sander97C2

sub in here Juha, been a big fan, following your threads around the 993 forum has been a great learning experience.

I owned a built and boosted (_SC61mm Precision dual ball-bearing with 0.63 turbine side) black mica mazdaspeed protege. We had dyno tuned the mazda at 20psi and clocked a best run of 420fwhp/392lbft
It was scary fast! I had striped out 400lbs from the car and it weighed roughly 2600lbs. with me in the car. It was an 11 second 1/4_mile sleeper.

2.0Liter built longblock. My pride and joy. Nearly 1.5 years to get it to this point. Owned her for 8 years though. Learned a ton about forced induction Enjoy



Sorry I digresssed, but am very interested in what you are doing with the new intercoolers! Im a forced induction lover, and would love to get a ride in your badass ride if I'm ever in Finland!
Keep up the great work Juha G

Juha G

Time has been limiting me since last week when my wife gave birth to our daughter (first child) but ofcourse I couldn't resist popping into the garage every now and then...

I dismantled the GT2RS coolers and welded them together. Then test fitted the GT2 wing and placed the cooler inside. I cut some 110mm Aluminum pipe for the end tanks. It looks like there is plenty of room. Maybe I need to make the end tanks a tad bigger!?
There is also nice room left for a proper cold air intake box, in front of the cooler (where you can see the filter in the photos).

Stay tuned!

Flying Finn

CONGRATS TO MOMMY & DADDY!!
(oh, and nice progress on the coolers too)

trophy

Congrats on your new Addition (your daughter not the IC's)

doc_porsche

Too cool...... Welcome to parenthood...... Best thing ever