Flying Finn

Cool indeed!! As already said, air cool!

I just want to know where those test runs we're done... Country roads baby...

sturm

Why didn't TPC use the simpler and apparently more efficient air/air IC instead of the awkward air/water set-up??

Juha G

I think they wanted to offer a kit that retains the stock look.. A big air/air intercooler like mine requires a huge wing.

cajunboy

Did yout dyno before and after the ic. I am curious to see how much horsepower is gain from your setup. I also have Tpc supercharged water air setup.

pete95zhn

I'd say that there's no gains visible in dyno.
In dyno, with realtively cool engine/first pulls the water-to-air IC isn't yet heat soaked and performs well. OTH that big air-to-air IC over the engine may be hot already and is very difficult to cool when car's stationary.
Water-to-air IC is OK for occasional trafficlight accelerations/quartermile pulls and similar child's play, but for HD use, ie. tracking air-to-air IC is a must. Juha's temperature loggings show clearly that water-to-air IC is totally useless after 5 laps of 2 mile track at +25C. And there/then the hosepower differerence is huge. Not so much about gains, but because of no lost hp at all.
Totally different issue is the the question of IC cores. A educated guess would be that those GT2 IC's are in the top 3 in terms of quality, in either pressure loss or effiency.
Best test is few 100-200kmh pulls and the time comparison, not dyno.

Juha G

I partially agree with Pete. However, my last dyno figures were with a heat soaked intercooler (IAT's in the range of 40-50*C or even higher).
I would be surprised if we didn't see some gains on the dyno but of course it requires fiddling with the ignition maps. Cooler engine/intake air, less prone to detonation -> more advance can be dialed in, which yeilds more torque. Keep in mind Pete that this is exactly how we dialed it in; advancing the ignition until we saw detonation and then pulled back some for safety margin.
I'm heading to the dyno on tuesday/wednesday, I'm hoping we'd see at least the TPC advertised 450hp (which in my opinion is totally unrealistic with the kit they provided).

Regarding the air/air intercooler not cooling down when the car is stationary; this was my expactation as well. I was amazed that there was no heat soak at all, even after driving really hard and letting the engine idle with the car parked. Only thing I can think of is that there is just so much surface area in the GT2RS cores that when the SC is not producing more heat, (but only radiating the heat transferred to the SC itself), it is enough to cool down the intake air with the lightest flow through it. (engine fan pulling some air through it at idle speed).
The SC is really not a good heat exchanger, therefore even if it is really hot, it won't be able to transfer too much of that heat into the bypassing air. It is completely another thing when the SC is greating pressure and the air itself get's heated up...

Ok, a lot of speculation with little to no facts but let's see what the results are tomorrow after the first track test... I am hoping to break my track record by a good margin. Pumped with adrenaline from Saturdays race at the same track...

pete95zhn

^^^ Juha, you have a Motec that's tuned for your car.
I started with an assumption that basic line is a SC'd 993 with "one-tune-fits-all" flashed/chipped Motronic...

haygeebaby

Nice
Good luck with the next track day you do.
And lets hope we see some great numbers.
I wish that setup would fit under the stock tail.

mr_bock

I am also interested in your dyno results. With my 1996 P-car, stock but with a K&N Air filter, it dyno'd at 202 rwhp. After the sc installed, no inter-cooler, I get 322 rwhp. I will have to search to find the read outs to see what the torque was and the brand of the dyno, etc...

Bottom line for me was 120 bolt on hp ain't bad. Inter-coolers like your's will be icing on the cake!!!

cajunboy

Thanks Juha for doing this project so other with TPC supercharger know what possibilities they can do to gain hp.

Juha G

Ok, I spent the better half of the day at a local track today. It was cold and damp but I still managed to put in some decent laps (no lap records this time though).
The intercooler worked absolutely flawlessly!! There was no heat soak at any point. The maximum IAT we saw was 24-25*C while ambient was around 10*C.
So that makes the delta T 14-15*C. In my books that's as good as it will ever get with any charge cooling system. And remember, that is only the peak value, going WOT trough 3rd and 4th gears on a long straight. Other times the IAT would stay below 20*C (deltaT less than 10dgr)

I couldn't be more happier and I seriously recommend going this route if you can live with a big *** wing.

Now that the air is cooler, I see a drop in the boost pressure (from 0.55bar to 0.45bar), maybe I should try a smaller sc pulley...!?

cajunboy

so what was the before temp before your big intercooler? since i bought my car with the tpc, can you please tell me what option on pulley do we have. What is the most boast we safely can use on our car.

sonny1

The drop in pressure is not because the air is colder, it is normal back pressure created by the intercoolers, I must say that it is minimal, taking into account the low boost pressure you are using,yes you should go to a smaller pulley at the blower, or bigger at the crank.,enjoy, cheers.

Kein_Ersatz

Who can't

mr_bock

I was thinking about how the air flows over the car and down over the wing/louvered grill before leaving the car. Does the air flow in thru the grill and inter-cooler with some of the air then going into the engine fan? If the air is going this way, where does it exit the engine bay? Should the engine tray be removed? I always wondered just how the air flow in and around and out of the engine bay while the car is going down the road, slow and fast. Not sure if the flow is high pressure after it passes the rear window, as opposed to high pressure at the base of the windshield.

Any insight would be helpful in understanding the flow dynamics.

Thanks,
George B.