race911

Uh, to reiterate for what's getting to be too many times:

1. This was NOT a DE. It's pretty par for the course on what we do at these events, it's just that 99.5 times out of 100 you get mega cooperation. You should see the kind of cooperation I universally get in the Radical. Come to think of it, even in a Spec Miata if guys are out there working on racecraft.

2. I'm all eyes/ears for alternate suggestions on how to handle two wheels off in a 911 of pretty much any generation. Lift? Brake? In this scenario, hit the sandbags head on, potentially pitching right into the wall at 70mph or getting slowed down extremely quickly if pitched left--likely into oncoming traffic? Not the first time I've been two off on the exit of T6, probably won't be the last (though I'll guess it may be awhile, and certainly not during the rainy season).

I may not be the most skilled guy out there, but I've got over 30 years in with these things from a 185s-all-the-way-around '68S wannabe through the sophistication of this car via Steve Weiner's expertise. At nearly 50, I'm probably stuck with using the technique(s) I've developed, and have served me pretty well.

Juha G

Ken, I am not doubting your driving skills. It is just that sometimes even the best drivers forget the basic stuff. I would imagine you teach these both no-no's for all your students...

For #1; correct approach would have been to pit in-pit out so that you don't end up behind this douchebag. (if it was a race, that would have been a nice take over)

#2: You made your mistake at 0:58 (aggressive correction to the left). There was plenty of run-off where the car was going. Just keep the wheel straight and wait until the speed rubs off a bit (no braking, no steering when 2 off)...

race911

Now this is just pointless.

Please don't tell me what's correct, and what isn't. This off could have just as easily happened if I were practicing off-line corner entry. The result wasn't caused by the pass, in and of itself.

And my "mistake" was a missed apex. Everything else flowed from that. Happy to compare notes on: 1. any part of Laguna on which you're experienced, and/or 2. result of hitting stacked sandbags head-on at 65-70mph (or 20mph, for that matter).

I'm not going to comment further--as I've previously mentioned, the video has been reviewed and commented on locally by guys who were there and/or have thousands of laps in there. Pretty unanimous opinion that I wasn't getting out undamaged. That's why I can look back and appreciate how little damage there was AND there was no car-to-car contact.

zechunique

Ken,

I'd just like to say "thanks" for posting this. I for one think your attitude is great, and appreciate learning from your experience at any level I can (plenty of blank pages in my notepad to write on).

One observation I haven't seen here so far is that the first turn shown in your forward-facing video, the guy you are passing scarcely even apexes in a (approximately 180 degree turn), and his steering inputs look pretty rough. Two points here: one, I'm not getting a strong impression of his experience level and associated hazards; two, I think (easy for me to say) that if you had laid back a bit longer and caught him at the exit, you could have beat him substantially at recovery there, or similarly in other following opportunities. Please correct my if I am off on that.

Also, it looks to me (from your slow-mo version) that you may have avoided the off by shedding a bit more speed, and apexing a hair later. Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, or way off here (I am nowhere near your ability); plus my comments are all arm-chair, hindsight observations, so I am probably out of line for even typing them in here.

My only reason for commenting here (at all) is that I take your post as a noble effort on your part to share valuable content with this community, and I wish to take the opportunity for my own educational benefit, as I assume you have offered it.

I have no clue whatsoever on how I would escape the situation once caught in it, and I suspect you ended it about as well as most experts (other than leading rally drivers...) would have, 9 times out of 10.

Again, "well done" to you on all levels here.

element

Ken - I totally agree and this is ultimately the risk of driving at speed, split second decisions picking the less of two evils.

My original question was all about learning from you and your experience as with enough track time I will be in the sand as well (and so will everyone else - if not, you are not pushing hard enough) I am new to Porsche's and the rear engine beasts are a big learning from my FWD mini.

Thanks for all the inside thoughts and comments! 48 hours and ill be waiting at the gate for my first track session - woooot!

phil.

Flying Finn

"Little" late to the party...

Sorry to see this Ken, especially so IMO when the situation is where it's so close to being nothing. Although there often are many "almost" situations like this when nothing happens so then we don't even think about them much.

You've been critiqued by others and by yourself also and it all seems pretty clear. I also agree the sandbags played an obvious role, not that they caused directly anything but that if they had not been there, this would've been another typical "nothing".

Exactly. To me it seemed you were doing everything right once the wheels were off, just taking it easy, trying to slow it down and go straight. But then you saw the sand bags and needed to do something in order to avoid them and that's where the problem started since you had to steer just a little more to the left.

The rest speaks for itself.

**** happens and I'm glad you have the attitude I always try to have: "once the **** is in your pants, there's no point about bitching about it".
(because it won't change anything)

Funny, when I opened the thread and saw the photo of YZ on a trailer, that was my first thought... Because then something good comes out of this.

Juha G

I am just commenting based on what I read in your posts and the video. Isn't discussion the whole point of posting this here? I don't see how it is pointless.

To me this sounded like you were getting pissed off at this guy who didn't let you pass. (Maybe I got that one wrong?)
I think one should not let emotions take control at track.
If you think it's best to keep going at it in that kind of situation, then that is your opinion and we can just agree to disagree about it.

#2, on the video at 0:58 you make a very aggressive steering input to the left. Ofcourse it is really easy to rewind the video now and comment behind the keyboard here and again it's just my opinion, but still I think that is what caused the spin...

eric523

Really sorry to see that. Appears everything would have gone OK if the sandbags hadn't appeared as an obstacle. Glad you were OK.

I had a bit of an episode in T6 my first weekend at Laguna in the Boxster Spec car and luckily avoided contact. Titled the video "how NOT to take turn 6 at Laguna Seca"
http://youtu.be/wRgRCC2AxRc

RAPID

Thanks for posting the video Ken, I've had similar experiences twice. I did not post the videos though, because each time after showing them to my "friends" I got days...weeks of advices on what I should have done...I have seen a few threads where someone posted their mishaps only to be the subjects of endless "lessons". If it makes you feel better, I think you did OK in the circumstances, and you got off lightly!

camlob

I think Ken is a very good driver based on his previous vids. He is able to correct oversteer numerous times in the other vids.

I really think accidents do happen when you start to push the limits. Which is why I do track days. My brother got into a similar accident.

It's hard to judge a accident because of so many variables, like how the car handles, the track etc. I have not driven that track so I have no clue on that turn and the speed to take it.

95_993

Ken,

Just seeing this thread. Glad to see only the 993 suffered damage and not you. Since you now have a few weekends open with no track days, you need to fly back out here to the east coast and join us for another NJ/NY/CT Rennlist drive. I gotta attest to your mad skills as you tossed the rental Impala around the twisties a few months back.

ivangene

late to the party - wanted to say sorry about the incident, glad you are OK....that video must have replayed a million times in your head by now. tough to watch.

timothymoffat

Another late arrival. Again, sorry to see this but the key is nobody got hurt.