nile13

Search and yee shall find. Or pay somebody and they shall find for you

Seriously, this topic comes around every year or so. I vividly remember 2008 before the crash. I was still on my first cab back then. Which I bought in 2004 for $18K (sic, $17K, really, as I sold an extra set of bent HREs that came with it for $1K) with 112K miles. John D. bought his coupe at the same time for the same $17K. The coupe that is son still autocrosses locally, if that matters.

The going rate for a decent coupe back than was $32-35, 2S was about $57K and TT was in $65K+ range. With the sentiment of "oh, that is the terminal price, they will never ever go down from here". That was 30 month ago.

CalvinC4S

CorrdoBrit, your car is a lot nicer then average ($10k seats and 30k miles) and shouldn't be used as average comp

Stealth 993

Good cars cost more, & lesser cars cost less.

IMHO, I would be scared of getting a 993 for well under the $20k mark. I paid a lot for both of mine, and even took some flack on the board for the pice of the C4S.

But in 3 years of owning 2 993's, neither one has ever let me down, or had any real problems. I did pay more upfront for this to happen.

Think about it, you get a $18k 993. It's needs some work...
30k service (maybe plug wires)
suspension bushings/shocks
SAI/valve guides
paint chips/full detail
lights, interior bits, just worn parts.
full brake job
Clutch

So, in 6mo you can put what, $6-14k into your cheaper car.

I say, get the best car you can, with the lowest miles, & best records. Then drive the SNOT out of IT, with no worries!

nile13

Again, you can subscribe to anything you'd like. It is impossible to argue with faith based believes. I prefer facts.

KBB. Do not make me laugh. Please.

nile13

Stealth, I do not disagree with you on the idea of getting a more expensive car with less miles. But that's not really what we are discussing here. The question is - what would one pay for a '05 C2. I've put my numbers out based on the market I see. If you'd like, please gather some numbers from eBay's completed auction, consummated private sales, etc to dispute my assessments.

On the $18K car, btw... I drove it for 30K miles with long periods of inactivity thrown in. Drove it year around, including snow. It needed a clutch, which I knew wen I was buying it. I did put in clutch and LFW as well as Bilsteins/H&Rs. That's not even maintenance, nor repair, this is "I want". Did replace the pads ($40 per axle from Sunset at the time, about 1 hour of my time total). I have an Excel file of what was done on the car, actually, so I don't have to remember things or what they cost.

On the other hand, if one buys a 30K mile car... the clutch will still be there, but the OEM suspension is simply gone. Plug wires, I think, will mostly depend on age, not miles. So will assorted gaskets. Interior will be nicer, yes, but we are talking 12-15K difference in price here, right? For my second cab I've chosen one with fewer miles, supposedly better shape and a bit more $$.

So, again, it's a personal choice. To me, these cars are there to be driven. And the OP's idea of buying a '95 C2 coupe kind of points to a diver, not a garage queen. But even a garage queen '95 C2 will nto bring too much nowadays.

PS. So we don't stray too far, here's what I would consider a very standard example of a driver in decent shape to be had in low 20s: https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ck-nb-dfw.html

agent325

For 25K to 30K, you should pick up a very nice C2.

matt777

I think a simple bit of research on the car listing sites will give you a real range on asking prices. That is the market (or most of it). I still think that you need nearly $30k to buy a nice C2 but that mark will change for every individual depending on their expectations and requirements. In the meantime, I'll look for these low 70-80k cars for low $20k with no issues

Atomicman

EBay sale of a 1997 C2 cab with 10,600 miles confirmed last month for $50,000 - Red w/ 6 speed - nicely equipped from factory in stock immaculate condition. Another similar mileage/condition 1996 Arena Red C2 cab sold several weeks prior through a dealer's EBay listing at that approximate price.

nile13

Can you please explain how "asking prices" equates with "market"? Thank you in advance.

If you are willing to put the money where your opinion is, I am willing to find you a half dozen cars with under 80K miles for low $20s (let's say under $23K purchase price). I will take $1K fee for my time just to be fair. You will still save at least $5K from you market assessment. Deal?

Stealth 993

Not to argue your other post, but you do kind of get what you pay for. Of course a PPI is MUST, even more so on a questionable car (pricing aside). My point was with a cheaper car, you expect things to be attended to, with a more expensive car, you expect things to be already taken care of.

That being said, next time, I'm in the market for a car, I'm going to have you find it for me!!!!!

When I was looking for the C4, it was very hard to find a "good" car for under $30k. However, that was 3 years ago. But if I were to sell it, even with 100,000 mi, I would ask $30k for it.

nile13

Stealth, a lot changed in three years, and not in the right direction. I think that pricing on any 993 has gone down at least 20% between fall of 2007 and fall of 2010. It's closer to 30% on some cars, like 2S. And it was even lower in the spring-summer of 2009.

Having said that, when you look for your next one, I'll be more than happy to help in your search, at least with opinions and Rennfax. Same as I have been helped by Rennlisters with purchases of both of mine sight unseen.

matt777

Asking price is an indicator of selling price. Generally, people don't ask for $30k and sell for $20k. I suppose that if you low ball some sellers and find desperate ones you might get a big discount. A search of MSN yields 97 993s from '95 to '97. Prices for coupes/manual start at $27k. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here, just debating the market prices from what I have seen. If you have a different opinion and can back it up, why don't you tell the OP where he can find these good cars for low 20's (I'm not in the market) or is this only a service you provide at cost? I don't doubt that there are some exceptions/deals out there.

CalvinC4S

Post #5

Not just an exception.

timothymoffat

IMHO, looking for a 95 C2 coupe, low 20s ($23K US MAX) will get you a decent driver with some combination of higher miles, needed maintenance, or previous damage (nothing too major). A "needs nothing" 993 (ALL servicing up to date, newer brakes and tires, no major hits, and good cosmetics) will be more, the exact $$$ to be determined at time of sale. As the cars get older, there's much more room for variables in all matters (miles, condition, maintenance, and price). At this stage of the game, the easy answer isn't so easy anymore.

nile13

Ummm... maybe in Canada.

No, seriously. Asking price is not an indicator of selling price, nor a good indicator of a market at all.

No. Please ask for $30K and end up keeping it because they have no idea what the market is like. After a while they come to their senses, ask for a believable number, negotiate and arrive at the only indicator of true market value - what someone is willing to pay for something on a given day.

And on a given day that end selling price will actually represent the market.

This is not a pissing contest, not at all. I wish my cab with 82K miles and in decent shape was worth $30K. It's not.

I do not provide a service. Not for money, nor free. This was to make a point. Moreover, I have given a URL of a Rennlister selling a '95 cab _today_ with 65K miles and asking price of $23,9K. If someone is looking for a car, I can certainly do a search and provide an opinion. Same search that anyone else can do. Far be it from me to actually charge for it, especially a fellow Rennlister. But, as I've said, I tried to make a point.

PS. Sorry, I truly do not understand why a search on MSN would constitute a legitimate homework on finding a market value of a 993, nor do I still understand why asking prices are an indication of the market. I wish, similar to MLS, the car adds would indicate "days on the market".

I'll put it another way. Let' take a real example. A Craigslist add appears with a decent 993 at a price, let's say $22K. A dealer buys it and advertises it for $28K. This happens every week, let me assure you. What is the market value of this car?