wmetais

I have a 1996 targa that has a problem with the retracting of the glass top. Since I'm fairly new to this site, I am not aware of how to get help for this problem. It seems that a screw on the rear height adjustment plate has worked loose and now the top "drags" heavily as it closes. I ordered another replacement screw and attempted to secure that rear adjustment bracket back into place. Now I am experiencing "binding and grinding" to the point that I am seeing minute metal "shavings" apprearing in the track., (the original screw was no where to be found). A friend turned me on to the Pcarworkshop site that explains the top operation but it really doesn't give me any direction on how to actually remove the glass top to get to the track underneath and find out just what the problem is. When I run my hand underneath this rear height adjustment plate, I can feel that their is possibly a rivet or screw of some kind that might be holding a bracket missing there also. It doesn't seem to match the side that is operating properly. Is there anyone in the Ohio or midwest region that knows how to explain this to me, or can diagnose the problem and fix it, or direct me to where I can get technical information to alleviate this problem?

Arena993

This may help you out. Mike site is great for Targas. I'll see what else is there. He is the expert

http://pcarworkshop.com/index.php/99...ration_Outline

Mike

Leander

There's a small metal part that needs to be replaced. It's very expensive. The original was not made well and fails. The replacement is much better. I cannot remember the part number - ask Chris at Bauer in Oakland. He repaired mine a few years ago. http://www.abauer.com/

Amfab

oy what ever is happening stop moving the top. If you can get it closed close it. If you have any binding it can cause serious damage.
First do not try to lubricate the tracks to make thing work smoothly.

Go to:

http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph...ght_Adjustment

Scroll down a little and you can see what the rear axle plates look like. Is the plate intact?
Is the screw that holds this place missing?

wmetais

Thanks for this information. The plate itself, looks intact. It is some type of piece I can feel in the track under the plate that appears to be loose. Are there any directions on how to remove JUST the glass top to get to this, without removing the entire assembly, (i.e., cables etc., etc.).?? I e-mailed Chris Bauer, as suggested, to ask him that same question. How hard is this for a casual mechanic, such as myself, to do?

Amfab

These documents are probably the most information you will come across from the factory regarding the workings of the top:

http://www.pcarworkshop.com/images/7...ick_Part_1.pdf

http://www.pcarworkshop.com/images/f...ick_Part_2.pdf

http://www.pcarworkshop.com/images/f...aManualpgs.pdf

Thanks Mikej for providing them along with the rest of the information on the pcarworkshop site.

On page 5-35 of the first pdf there is a picture of the plastic ramp/slot and the pin that rides in the track and carries the back of the glass roof. The slot causes the pin—and therefore the back of the roof—to rise as the top comes to a full close. This plastic ramping slot is riveted to the aluminum track and when the roof is closed that would be directly behind the plate I referred to earlier
This could be what you are referring to.

If you go through my write up on the workings of the targa top on the pcarworkshop site it may help you understand the mechanism better.

http://www.pcarworkshop.com/index.ph...ration_Outline

The factory's manual's pictures can be confusing if you aren't looking at the parts.

On page 6-206 of the last pdf above, there is a pictorial of how to remove the glass roof. It is a bit of a pain. If you decide to do it, private message me and I'll give you my phone number. I can give you a little advice on how to do it, although it has been a few years since I've done it.
The glass roof can be removed without removing the entire mechanism.

wmetais

Thank you so much! I will be in touch once I begin this project. Yes, the riveted piece has become loose. I'm assuming this can be "riveted" to the bottom of the track again.???? All your help on this is certainly appreciated, as this is my "baby" we are taling about. I hate things that don't work!

Arena993

^^^ Yep this is one cool place. Everyone is willing to help. Keep us updated and good luck.

Amfab

The only problems I can foresee are that there isn't enough room to get an uncompressed rivet into the hole because there isn’t enough room behind the track there. I can’t remember if there is a space. Also I am not sure how to get a rivet gun in there you may have to take some other parts out, like the sunblind track. I wonder if screwing it into the aluminum would work, the screw head may stick out too far though.

One other thing, once you get this thing working again, get a vacuum nozzle and vacuum the track out all the way to the back end of it, to make sure and get any debris left from this out of the track. The reason I know so much about the top is because someone who had worked on it dropped and left a screw in the track and it sat in the back of the track for months and one day the screw jammed the top after bouncing around and getting wedged somewhere

mgianzero

wmetals,

I've just completing almost a complete rebuild on my rooftop mechanism for my targa top. I've even replaced these plastic ramp/slot pieces I think you are referring to. But I did it with the whole track mechanism removed from the car first.

Let me take a look at my setup and see if there's a way to get your rivet gun in there. Like Andrew says, it's really a tight space so you may have to remove the whole cable assembly first. (Andrew helped me with my car too. -- Thanks Andrew.) I was able to do remove this assembly without taking the rails completely out of the car. Very tricky.

Where are you located? Perhaps we can look at it or you can take some snapshots and we'll try to talk you through it.

mgianzero

wmetals,

Just looked at my targa top again. Now I remember. There's really no way to replace this "guide pin rail" piece without pulling the rail out a bit from the car (doesn't need to be totally removed but pulled out a bit). Then you should be able to get a rivet gun in their to secure the part.

But you do need to remove the glass top in order to really do any of this work. (not too difficult to remove the top once you learn the process.) You can find the removal process in the TSB's and ask any of us for some pointers, that is if you're going to do the work yourself.

wmetais

Thanks Mgianzero. Yes, I will be trying to do this myself. I( guess I need more clarification on just how to remove that glass top without removing the entire cab section of the car, (as indicated on the service bulletins). I am located in Columbus, Ohio and don't really trust a dealer doing this work... at least not one in my area. Maybe I'm not too astute but the TSB I'm looking at doesn't make this clear enough for my limited talents.

goofballdeluxe

OK wmetais, now I recommend you do two things: Become a member of Rennlist and post some pics of your car!

Amfab

I hope I got this all straight, some is from memory, it's been a while since I did this.Before you try this I suggest that you print this out and the manual pages and go out to your car and follow along with the manual. These directions will make more sense if you are looking at the car. Then you can determine how hard a task this will be for you. Once the roof is out, then things get complicated if you want the rails out:

Removing the Wind Deflector

Open the roof

Put a layer of blue painters tape all around the top on the paint, but not the black strips next to the glass, these will be removed. Cover the blue tape with duct tape. Give two layers at least on the top of the windshield frame. This is where there is the most potential for damage as the top is removed.

The interior trim piece that goes across the top of the windshield must* be removed, the one with the interior light. This is called the crossbow trim section. The screws for the sun visors hold it up and the cover kind of hooks around on the edge facing the back of the car. Remove the visors and take it off being careful not to let it fall and yank hard on the wires to the light. It is a good idea to pull the light first and tag the wires

There are some small black screws revealed across the bottom of the cross piece (called the cross bow), I think there are six if I remember. These will come out and then the black metal piece that kind of wraps around the sunshade in the front can be removed. This cover partially blocks the 8mm bolts that hold on the wind deflector mounts. These mounts look like little curved felt thingies that fit into the curved slots.

*Note: Porsche lists the bolts as Torx Screws M5 x 12. If this is the case you may not have to remove the cross bow trim piece and the black metal cover next to the sunblind. I do not know if the fact mine are 8mm head hex bolts is due to the PO working on the car and switching them, or since mine is a 95 build, they may have later changed to Torx. Many other parts have changed from the early tops. In either case, torque is 5.5Nm or 4ft lb. I did the explanation above on removing the other stuff in case you have the hex bolts or need to remove that cover to work on the sun blind.

Remove the 4 bolts and take the curved things off and then the deflector can be tilted and slid off the little arms that lift it up

Now the steps as seen in the pictures on page 60-202/203:

Picture 1: remove the bolts that hold the visor in place.
Picture 2: remove the wind deflector as the instructions say in the manual; tilting and lifting.


Removing the glass top—This is at least a two person job.

Now that the wind deflector is out, cover the front edge of the hole in the roof with some more tape to protect it.

Remove the sun blind as per the manual on page 60-206/207

Step 1(a): Get a little dental pick or something and push in the center of the plastic rivet that holds the front end of the rail—where the black arrow is pointing in picture 1. It will then come loose.
Step 1(b):Take a photo of how the weird black metal spring clips are stuck in the back end of the tracks. This photo will help in figuring out how they go back in. Remove these spring clips
Step 2 in the manual is clear—unbolt the back of the top
Step 3 in the manual is clear—unbolt the front of the top
Step 4: The levers that tilt up the wind deflector require a special tool that slides underneath them to let them be folded down so the glass top can be slid out.
I don’t have this tool so I unbolted the levers from underneath and removed them.

If I remember correctly this requires removing the interior roof rail trim. See Targa Service Technick Part 2 page 5-46.
Remove the nut at the front of the trim piece (the crossbow cover mentioned above must be removed to access this)
Remove the coat hook screw—this screw holds a metal tab that secures the center/rear of the roof rail trim. The tab has sharp edges so care must be taken when removing the rails to avoid scratching other interior trim.
The screws at the rear do not screw the roof rail trim down. They must be loosened however because a sliding tab that cannot be seen holds part of the roof rail trim and this needs to be disengaged. This is done by sliding the roof rail trim piece backwards 40mm, which cannot happen unless the end piece of the roof rail trim is loose. Be careful back there because the felt strip at the base of the rear window that is attached to the rear deck gets brittle and is easy to crack off the rear deck.

Step 5: The black plastic trim pieces that run on the outside of the glass roof to the deck lid are called “Roof Rail Covers” they are most likely fairly brittle at this age. They need to be removed—which is next to impossible to do without damaging them—for the top to get out. So instead of a full removal they can be partially removed and bent slightly out of the way.
Go get a box of—at least 12—guitar picks, I recommend Dunlop Tortex Orange .60mm or Red .50mm, and jam them under the plastic every 6 inches or so to break the bond and pull the strips away from the roof rails toward the center of the car (picture 5). Once enough of the length of the cover strips are pulled off the roof rails they can then be bent slightly outward (picture 6) to give the clearance needed to slide the top up and out the front. Blue painters tape can hold them out of the way. Do not bend them far as they are brittle.

Lift and pull the top out the front of the roof hole. At first it will seem impossible to get out, as if there is not enough room. It will come out, but it must be tilted, lifted, and turned to just the right position for it to fit.

As I said, it gets more difficult from here on out if you want the tracks out... I can try to explain it if a) you want and b) I can remember.

wmetais

Whew! Thank you, thank you, thank you! We are going to attempt. Yes, the track on the passenger side will need to come out, (at least partially), as that is the one where the rivets are broken. Re-installation of all seems to be our issue also, so your advise about taking pictures is well taken. Wish us luck!