964 vs 993
05-11-2009, 11:21 AM
#91
Rennlist Member
I find these threads crack me up. Nothing more than opinions. I like the rear of the 911 but don't like anything from the door forward but that is me. I know many like myself that would agree.
I understand we are on the 993 forum and I am not trying to put the car down. But the 993 does not have a special place above and beyond all other 911's.
except in the hearts of you owners. Which is the way it should be. Lets face it, the 993 is just another link in the chain just as the 996 and 997 is.
The 928 was supposed to do away with the 911 altogether. Financial difficulties and economic hard times in the mid 90's along with the growing popularity of the SUV changed a lot for the company. A decision was made so the 928/968 lines were dropped and the 911 was to continue as the base line with a facelift aka the 993 on the 964 platform with some changes. This is no different than my 94 turbo 3.6. They needed to keep the turbo alive since the 969 project was killed (this is the car all the rumors are about not the 993) and they needed to keep the turbo alive since the new turbo would not be ready until 1996 and it would have been too long a gap between 1992 and 1996 without a flagship turbo model. The boxster was the next salvation of the company as you can see the number of 993's doubled over the 964 but was nothing compared to the growth seen by the boxster.
As Porsche learned they made improvements to the 911. The AWD system went through major changes and was in the works for years before being released. The rear suspension was a variation of the now defunct 928 weissach suspension. The 993 was not the first Porsche with a 6 speed and would have made it into whatever model they came out with.
Yes there will always be a cult following of die hard 993 owners that believe the 993 is leaps and bounds beyond the 964 and other models in looks and performance but IMO it is all an illusion, same car in a new skin with some changes. Some of the changes were pros and others I see as cons. If the different fenders are that much better in your eyes great.
Again a great car but the changes are liked by some but not by all. I can afford any 911 I want and the 993 is not tops on my list although highly appreciated and always admired.
I understand we are on the 993 forum and I am not trying to put the car down. But the 993 does not have a special place above and beyond all other 911's.
except in the hearts of you owners. Which is the way it should be. Lets face it, the 993 is just another link in the chain just as the 996 and 997 is. The 928 was supposed to do away with the 911 altogether. Financial difficulties and economic hard times in the mid 90's along with the growing popularity of the SUV changed a lot for the company. A decision was made so the 928/968 lines were dropped and the 911 was to continue as the base line with a facelift aka the 993 on the 964 platform with some changes. This is no different than my 94 turbo 3.6. They needed to keep the turbo alive since the 969 project was killed (this is the car all the rumors are about not the 993) and they needed to keep the turbo alive since the new turbo would not be ready until 1996 and it would have been too long a gap between 1992 and 1996 without a flagship turbo model. The boxster was the next salvation of the company as you can see the number of 993's doubled over the 964 but was nothing compared to the growth seen by the boxster.
As Porsche learned they made improvements to the 911. The AWD system went through major changes and was in the works for years before being released. The rear suspension was a variation of the now defunct 928 weissach suspension. The 993 was not the first Porsche with a 6 speed and would have made it into whatever model they came out with.
Yes there will always be a cult following of die hard 993 owners that believe the 993 is leaps and bounds beyond the 964 and other models in looks and performance but IMO it is all an illusion, same car in a new skin with some changes. Some of the changes were pros and others I see as cons. If the different fenders are that much better in your eyes great.
Again a great car but the changes are liked by some but not by all. I can afford any 911 I want and the 993 is not tops on my list although highly appreciated and always admired.
I think one thing I can take that is somewhat unique from the group's comments is that I've owned each generation in succession. 1980 it was a '68 2.0. Through the 2.4, 2.7. 3.0, (never a 3.2 actually), 964 and now 993. Always as extremely used cars; always after the next generation had been for sale. So I just sit behind the wheel, look at the 5 gauge dash, press the bottom hinged pedals and pretty much feel at home.
05-11-2009, 11:33 AM
#92
Rennlist Member
Just thought it was amazing for a car company to drop the price almost 10% when they came out with a new model.
Also cy7878 it usually is cheaper to buy a car in europe. i guess it depends on exchange rates etc, but knew an individual that bought a MB direct from teh factory and was cheaper for him to pick it up there and have it shipped then buy in teh states.
Also cy7878 it usually is cheaper to buy a car in europe. i guess it depends on exchange rates etc, but knew an individual that bought a MB direct from teh factory and was cheaper for him to pick it up there and have it shipped then buy in teh states.
Now? Likely no difference as they'll discount pretty much anything at least that much.
As far as new Porsche prices, look how good we have it here: '09 911S coupes seem to start at: EU93890 ($127890) in Germany, GBP68878 ($104010) in GB, AUD248100 in ($189155) in Australia.....................and $87000 here (not to mention heavy discounting I'm sure isn't available anywhere else on the planet.) Ain't a free market and competition wonderful? For a few more years (months?), anyway.
05-11-2009, 11:48 AM
#93
Rennlist Member
Crack up all you want. For me, the 993 is the final development of the original car. I sit in a 996- and all I "feel" is that the car has a rear engine. Could be a Renault Alpine for all the similarity.
I think one thing I can take that is somewhat unique from the group's comments is that I've owned each generation in succession. 1980 it was a '68 2.0. Through the 2.4, 2.7. 3.0, (never a 3.2 actually), 964 and now 993. Always as extremely used cars; always after the next generation had been for sale. So I just sit behind the wheel, look at the 5 gauge dash, press the bottom hinged pedals and pretty much feel at home.
I think one thing I can take that is somewhat unique from the group's comments is that I've owned each generation in succession. 1980 it was a '68 2.0. Through the 2.4, 2.7. 3.0, (never a 3.2 actually), 964 and now 993. Always as extremely used cars; always after the next generation had been for sale. So I just sit behind the wheel, look at the 5 gauge dash, press the bottom hinged pedals and pretty much feel at home.
We are in the same boat. I have owned or have driven extensively most all model 911's along with most all Porsche's. This includes the 944/968/928/ Cayenne/boxster/cayman and a number of the newer 911's and GT cars.
The 996/997 feels much more like my 928 than it does any of my previous 911's. I will never be a fan of the 996 and the 997 is a major improvement but still lacks what the air cooled cars offered. One of the more exciting cars was a 71 911 E one of the first Porsche's I got involved with and restored it from the ground up in 1977. Drove it from NJ to CA in 32 hours and really enjoyed that car. My time behind the wheel of a 73 RS and the 19 years I owned a 74 RS/IROC clone built with all factory parts and a max moritz built 3.2 motor was unbelievable and offered an experience no 964 or 993 can.
So in many ways we are saying the same thing. These were all great cars. Each slightly different than the generation before. Yet I can't say anyone was superior to the others. As they changed the 911 it gained in some areas and lost in others. As the car was 85% redesigned in 1989 with the 964 it took on a much different feel. Weight gain was considerable and has been an issue ever since. The beauty of driving a car like a 73 RS is it's light weight and incredible response to steering input. This is something the 964/993 no longer has. yet it is compensated with added power and improved braking.
I could be happy behind the wheel of any of the air cooled 911's, no one in particular is the best although for me the 964 has all the lines of the earlier car which IMO was the best design looks wise and had the modern conveniences of the newer cars without much electronic intervention.
So if I need to admit that the 993 was the hands down best version of the air cooled 911 I can't, so I guess I should stay over in the 964 forum. But I do believe the 993 is a superb car but IMO that goes for most Porsche's and most air cooled 911's and is not an exclusive right owned by the 993.
05-11-2009, 12:38 PM
#94
We are pretty far off topic from this thread, but you know how Porsche could please the enthusiasts out there? No, not by making a 2,000 Hp, twin-everything, supercar. If they would make one car in the line of a Lotus (super light weight, decent power and great handling), I think it would sell like hotcakes. Maybe the Cayman is going to evolve into this, but it is still not what i am thinking of. I am thinking more like a modern, factory built, 73 RS recreation. I don't think it would dilute the brand at all.
05-11-2009, 01:32 PM
#95
If I could find a 964 Speedster, RS America or 3.6 Turbo, I would have to buy it on the spot! Otherwise I think the 993 coupe and cabs are better cars as far as the improvements in the suspension and varioram.
