KMASS993

Not again... Let's keep this thread comparing 993s and 964s not members and non members!

177mph

And youre not saying "not again" to the fact that were comparing 964's to 993's for the billionth time in this forum? Are you kidding?! Looks like Rennlist is changing. And not for the better...

KMASS993

177,

I am just sick of this member/non-member crap. Next you will be telling us to buy stock to support Rennlist? Own some shares already? This is a public company that is projecting growth of 10%-15% in this economy! Do you REALLY think that is because of the support of Rennlist members? It's called ADVERTISING... the rest is just whipped cream on top of their sundae. I don't judge someone that posts based on the number of Rennlist Lifetime memberships they have (which I agree was a good thing in the past) but rather on the quality of their posts and how much they are willing to help others and share their experiences. That's the way I pay for membership. I posted some financial info of IB just in case you wanted to know what IB is all about. Also as an FYI, the CEO of IB made $787K in salary and bonus plus an additional $278K in options during 2008 (in their 2009 proxy). That is some food for thought next time you see a "member" post on how they had to sell their p-car because they were laid off.

NOW... back to 993 vs. 964

LOS ANGELES, CA, Apr 29, 2009 (MARKET WIRE via COMTEX News Network) -- Internet Brands, Inc. (NASDAQ: INET)
-- Revenues and Adjusted EBITDA of $23.5 million and $8.3 million
-- Net Income of $0.05 per diluted share
-- Adjusted EBITDA growth of 4% year-over-year, 21% excluding a one-time
gain from prior year quarter
-- Unique Visitor Growth of 44% year-over-year
-- Reiterating 2009 guidance: adjusted EBITDA growth of 10% to 15% over
2008, or full year adjusted EBITDA of approximately $38.5 - $40.5 million

trickydisco

....and.........scene!

David in LA

The performance benefit from an exhaust mod IMHO is more from weight savings rather than hp or torOnly 3 worthwhile mods as far as getting "extra zip" - (i) forced induction; (ii) close ration gearset; (iii) gut it. Aside from the last one, your best bang for the buck mods would be handling related.

177mph

Kmassed002 (what does that stand for by the way - just curious)

you have obviously spent some time on this one. I think its hilarious!

J-F-O

I beleive that at that time, Porsche had started to automate the production process. This increased productivity by reducing the amount of labour cost in making the 993. The reduction in price was in part due to a reduction in manufacturing cost. 964 s were more expensive since more hand assembly was required. I think that the 964 & 993 were both transition cars between the air cooled engines the water cooled engines. If Porsche had had the time and resources, there may have developped only one instead of two cars. The 993 was the outside changes while the 964 was more focused on the inner mechanical parts.

In terms of design , the 964 is closer to the original concept of the 911. The 993 openned the door to the 996 and 997. Going from the 911 to the 993 would have been a big change for the traditionalists.Then again, maybe Porsche never intended to make the 964. They could of wanted to make the 993 straight from the 911.

J-F-O

[QUOTE=Kmassed002;6549407]177,

I am just sick of this member/non-member crap. Next you will be telling us to buy stock to support Rennlist? Own some shares already? This is a public company that is projecting growth of 10%-15% in this economy! Do you REALLY think that is because of the support of Rennlist members? It's called ADVERTISING... the rest is just whipped cream on top of their sundae. I don't judge someone that posts based on the number of Rennlist Lifetime memberships they have (which I agree was a good thing in the past) but rather on the quality of their posts and how much they are willing to help others and share their experiences. That's the way I pay for membership. I posted some financial info of IB just in case you wanted to know what IB is all about. Also as an FYI, the CEO of IB made $787K in salary and bonus plus an additional $278K in options during 2008 (in their 2009 proxy). That is some food for thought next time you see a "member" post on how they had to sell their p-car because they were laid off.

NOW... back to 993 vs. 964






Let's go Back to the 964-993 discussions...

cy7878

Also I thought from reading Andrea's book on the 993, Porsche had consolidated the number of part suppliers from something like 900 down to 300 along with streamlining their other costs to built a less expensive car. Furthermore, Porsche seems to have price control for the North America market, since cars have always sold for less here than the European market (unless it's a direct result of tax/tariff).

Well, why are we talking about the costs of the cars new, when they are this old now? Depreciation is pretty much independent of what the cars were new.

Reddy Kilowatt

Agreed. It came up because wellcraft brought up the drop in retail price. But it's a red herring.

NoSubEDU

Interesting to note that the car was supposed to be an "efficient" new design. Efficient as in Porsche had no money.

I find this comment interesting. No doubt there were some big changes in the 964. However, the 993 had the new VarioRam system (granted, not in '95), new LSA rear-end, 6-speed transmission, and new AWD system. That seems like quite a bit of mechanical/inner engineering work.

I will agree that the 993 was supposed to borrow as much as possible from the 964 since Porsche simply couldn't afford a completely new design...yet.

wellcraft290

Just thought it was amazing for a car company to drop the price almost 10% when they came out with a new model.

Also cy7878 it usually is cheaper to buy a car in europe. i guess it depends on exchange rates etc, but knew an individual that bought a MB direct from teh factory and was cheaper for him to pick it up there and have it shipped then buy in teh states.

grwoolf

This might have been a blessing really, because I'm not crazy about many of the changes that rolled forward to the 996. I read somewhere that the 993 was originally planned to have the flatter 996-style sides and a different roofline, but it was scrapped due to cost. I personally think the 993 is the best looking 911 to date and may carry that crown for a long time. I love the 964, but there are a few angles that are not quite right in my eye.

Edward

Purely speculative on my part, but I agree wholeheartedly. And the reason is similar to the long-hood 911s: it is unique and relatively short-lived. Note the significant difference in cost now between a pre-73 vs later. Not that much separates them mechanically, but looks, well!!!

Now look at 74 to 89: each "series" brought about changes, improvements, and refinements, but what separates them visually? Not a whole lot. The 964 is a 'tweener car, which expalins its "red-headed-stepchild" reputation (undeservedly so, but the marketplace bears this out clearly).

Now the 993: clearly a departure from the 911 lines that have graced Porsche from its inception to 94, but retains solidly the 911 identity, so much so that it remains iconic despite its differences. Add to this its aesthetic beauty (yes, beauty, I said it), which the 996 does not seem to enjoy despite its familial heritage ...my opinion, to be sure, but also seems to be corroborated by the marketplace.

All of which means nothing if you, the owner, doesn't love the car. But having that special 911 does mean something to me, and dare I say to most car enthusiasts, as no 911 is "practical" in any sense as much as it is an acquisition that speaks to one's automotive soul

Time will tell. But in years hence I do believe the 993 will gain the ranks of cult-classic in the way the long-hoods breed fanatical devotion (lust? ) in 911 hearts now. Either that, or I am alone in my neurotic desire to own one someday.

Edward

cobalt

I find these threads crack me up. Nothing more than opinions. I like the rear of the 911 but don't like anything from the door forward but that is me. I know many like myself that would agree.

I understand we are on the 993 forum and I am not trying to put the car down. But the 993 does not have a special place above and beyond all other 911's. except in the hearts of you owners. Which is the way it should be. Lets face it, the 993 is just another link in the chain just as the 996 and 997 is.

The 928 was supposed to do away with the 911 altogether. Financial difficulties and economic hard times in the mid 90's along with the growing popularity of the SUV changed a lot for the company. A decision was made so the 928/968 lines were dropped and the 911 was to continue as the base line with a facelift aka the 993 on the 964 platform with some changes. This is no different than my 94 turbo 3.6. They needed to keep the turbo alive since the 969 project was killed (this is the car all the rumors are about not the 993) and they needed to keep the turbo alive since the new turbo would not be ready until 1996 and it would have been too long a gap between 1992 and 1996 without a flagship turbo model. The boxster was the next salvation of the company as you can see the number of 993's doubled over the 964 but was nothing compared to the growth seen by the boxster.

As Porsche learned they made improvements to the 911. The AWD system went through major changes and was in the works for years before being released. The rear suspension was a variation of the now defunct 928 weissach suspension. The 993 was not the first Porsche with a 6 speed and would have made it into whatever model they came out with.

Yes there will always be a cult following of die hard 993 owners that believe the 993 is leaps and bounds beyond the 964 and other models in looks and performance but IMO it is all an illusion, same car in a new skin with some changes. Some of the changes were pros and others I see as cons. If the different fenders are that much better in your eyes great.

Again a great car but the changes are liked by some but not by all. I can afford any 911 I want and the 993 is not tops on my list although highly appreciated and always admired.