Springs!
Banned
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,023
Likes: 723
From: NJ but from Boston
Im currently running the H&R springs with totally shot Monroes. Ride quality is horrible. However just scored a complete set of Boge M030 struts & shocks from ebay. Will install next week. Hoping these items match up well. Anyone have experience with the H&R springs and Boge sport shocks?
Thanks Rich
Thanks Rich
Racer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: STL, MO
Here's a photo of my H&Rs before shipping them off to the next owner.
Notice the positions of the spring support collars.
I was just above 25 in. from floor to fender gap front and rear.
How does this compare with your settings?
Notice the positions of the spring support collars.
I was just above 25 in. from floor to fender gap front and rear.
How does this compare with your settings?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,839
Likes: 2
From: Daytona Beach
They are the H&R coilovers
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,210
Likes: 17
From: Nova Scotia
I had a similar issue with H&R's over Bilstein HD, linked here. I could not get over 131mm in front, and the front springs sounded like castanetes in a flamenco contest ( due to static coil bind of the top 3-4 coils) ...
The cure was to install a ROW MO30 spring set ....
The cure was to install a ROW MO30 spring set ....
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,839
Likes: 2
From: Daytona Beach
I had a similar issue with H&R's over Bilstein HD, linked here. I could not get over 131mm in front, and the front springs sounded like castanetes in a flamenco contest ( due to static coil bind of the top 3-4 coils) ...
The cure was to install a ROW MO30 spring set ....
The cure was to install a ROW MO30 spring set ....
Argh, this isn't really what I wanted to hear, but I guess it could be worse. Is there any way to tell (part numbers, etc) whether I have HD's or H&R's (or does Bilstein even make the shocks for H&R...I thought I read that on here in a few places???)
Did the spring noise up front sound clunky and tinny at the same time by any chance? Thats how it sounds to me.....
Racer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: STL, MO
The H&R coilovers should have an H&R label on the bottom of the struts. The rear droplink mounts are black on the H&Rs and silver on the Bilstein HDs. Compare my pic to your setup.
Bilstein most likely makes the struts in the H&R set.
Bilstein most likely makes the struts in the H&R set.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,839
Likes: 2
From: Daytona Beach
Ok, some pictures. I assume they are actually the H&R shocks, not the HD's as noted by the drop link mounts in black on the rear, and the logo is a red H&R logo.
These are of the fronts.
First up is the spring while the car is jacked up. You can see the markings of the spring here:
Second is a shot while the car is on the ground. Notice how stacked they are. The first 4 to 5 coils are resting on one-another.
This cannot be right and must be where my noise is coming from? With the car jacked up I can rotate the spring around its so loose. It almost seems as though the springs are FAR too weak for the weight of the front of the car.
Does anyone know anything about the markings/numbers on the spring? Clearly they are for a 993 as noted but why are they set up this way? Is this possibly correct?
Any help is MUCH appreciated. I'm about to rip them out and put in something else all together unless you guys can help me fix this or determine that it is, somehow, correct.
It looks like the part numbers are consistent with both the picture that icelatte posted, as well as the H&R web site. What have I missed??? Do I possibly have Bilstein HD's up front and H&R's in the rear?
These are of the fronts.
First up is the spring while the car is jacked up. You can see the markings of the spring here:
Second is a shot while the car is on the ground. Notice how stacked they are. The first 4 to 5 coils are resting on one-another.
This cannot be right and must be where my noise is coming from? With the car jacked up I can rotate the spring around its so loose. It almost seems as though the springs are FAR too weak for the weight of the front of the car.
Does anyone know anything about the markings/numbers on the spring? Clearly they are for a 993 as noted but why are they set up this way? Is this possibly correct?
Any help is MUCH appreciated. I'm about to rip them out and put in something else all together unless you guys can help me fix this or determine that it is, somehow, correct.
It looks like the part numbers are consistent with both the picture that icelatte posted, as well as the H&R web site. What have I missed??? Do I possibly have Bilstein HD's up front and H&R's in the rear?
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Racer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: STL, MO
Justin,
Part numbers are the same as were on my set.
29954 VA
The fronts also had a label with H&R X/T in front and H&R H/M in the rear. Wonder how old your
set is?
The way you're describing it, it does seem like the spring rate is far too low.
Time to call H&R in the US?
Part numbers are the same as were on my set.
29954 VA
The fronts also had a label with H&R X/T in front and H&R H/M in the rear. Wonder how old your
set is?
The way you're describing it, it does seem like the spring rate is far too low.
Time to call H&R in the US?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,839
Likes: 2
From: Daytona Beach
Justin,
Part numbers are the same as were on my set.
29954 VA
The fronts also had a label with H&R X/T in front and H&R H/M in the rear. Wonder how old your
set is?
The way you're describing it, it does seem like the spring rate is far too low.
Time to call H&R in the US?
Part numbers are the same as were on my set.
29954 VA
The fronts also had a label with H&R X/T in front and H&R H/M in the rear. Wonder how old your
set is?
The way you're describing it, it does seem like the spring rate is far too low.
Time to call H&R in the US?
I also noticed the logo on your set is blue where mine is red in the rear and missing the logo in the front????
Seared
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,887
Likes: 494
From: Ellicott City, MD
Justin,
The last time I saw a coil spring look like that (in its normal resting state) was on a 3rd Gen. 4Runner with progressive-rate lift springs from Performance Products. It too had the first 4 or 5 winds mashed together.
I would opt for something else.....
Andreas
The last time I saw a coil spring look like that (in its normal resting state) was on a 3rd Gen. 4Runner with progressive-rate lift springs from Performance Products. It too had the first 4 or 5 winds mashed together.
I would opt for something else.....
Andreas
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,839
Likes: 2
From: Daytona Beach
Justin,
The last time I saw a coil spring look like that (in its normal resting state) was on a 3rd Gen. 4Runner with progressive-rate lift springs from Performance Products. It too had the first 4 or 5 winds mashed together.
I would opt for something else.....
Andreas
The last time I saw a coil spring look like that (in its normal resting state) was on a 3rd Gen. 4Runner with progressive-rate lift springs from Performance Products. It too had the first 4 or 5 winds mashed together.
I would opt for something else.....
Andreas
Racer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: STL, MO
What were you told as to the age/mileage on these things and were there any pics?
I'm wondering about the health of the struts as well. Though not ideal, you could start with getting Bilstein HD fronts only and springs vs cost of seeing if H&R would rebuild struts/replace springs.
I'm wondering about the health of the struts as well. Though not ideal, you could start with getting Bilstein HD fronts only and springs vs cost of seeing if H&R would rebuild struts/replace springs.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,839
Likes: 2
From: Daytona Beach
What were you told as to the age/mileage on these things and were there any pics?
I'm wondering about the health of the struts as well. Though not ideal, you could start with getting Bilstein HD fronts only and springs vs cost of seeing if H&R would rebuild struts/replace springs.
I'm wondering about the health of the struts as well. Though not ideal, you could start with getting Bilstein HD fronts only and springs vs cost of seeing if H&R would rebuild struts/replace springs.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,210
Likes: 17
From: Nova Scotia
Further to my comments in post #20, I will first say that many here are very pleased with the H&R springs ... and have logged on many satisfying miles of street and DE driving: I had a lesser experience, much like your situation. I did not give up easily 
, for in attempting to increase the front height ... this was the first revelation . Then, this snafu occured . Eventually, I went to the progressive ROW MO30 .... which entailed rethreading the Bilsteins.
Well .... you get the picture...
The H&R fronts are a progressive spring type that in effect, use 'extra' closely spaced coils at the top to achieve the progressive spring rate - all wire stock is of constant diameter, as are the coils: this causes the top several coils to be 'in bind' at static height, so a higher rate is experienced on compression than on rebound ( once the spring is extended beyond static height) .... at least, that's how I understand it.
The consquence of this is that the 'binding' coils clatter away in routine driving on all but perfect surfaces - and really wake you up on expansion strips, etc. Hopefully, not all sets perform like this.
Anyway, I rode that horse to the bitter end, ditched the H&R's, and installed the front ROW MO30's/rear ROW TT's. The fronts are also a progressive design, but are executed quite differently. The OE Porsche units are fabricated with a tapering wire diameter, having a coil count, spacing and diameter more like stock units. The variable wire thickness provides the variable/progressive rate ---- without any coil bind and associated banging & clashing.
Much of the exercise in modifying suspensions, and the results achieved, is predicated on the desired chassis height: my goal was modestly below ROW 'Sport', and settles in at ~138mm/124mm f/r IIRC: those that lower further towards RS height likely have a far better experience with the H&R's, for I'm guessing that is closer to H&R's intent.
, for in attempting to increase the front height ... this was the first revelation . Then, this snafu occured . Eventually, I went to the progressive ROW MO30 .... which entailed rethreading the Bilsteins.Well .... you get the picture...
The H&R fronts are a progressive spring type that in effect, use 'extra' closely spaced coils at the top to achieve the progressive spring rate - all wire stock is of constant diameter, as are the coils: this causes the top several coils to be 'in bind' at static height, so a higher rate is experienced on compression than on rebound ( once the spring is extended beyond static height) .... at least, that's how I understand it.
The consquence of this is that the 'binding' coils clatter away in routine driving on all but perfect surfaces - and really wake you up on expansion strips, etc. Hopefully, not all sets perform like this.
Anyway, I rode that horse to the bitter end, ditched the H&R's, and installed the front ROW MO30's/rear ROW TT's. The fronts are also a progressive design, but are executed quite differently. The OE Porsche units are fabricated with a tapering wire diameter, having a coil count, spacing and diameter more like stock units. The variable wire thickness provides the variable/progressive rate ---- without any coil bind and associated banging & clashing.
Much of the exercise in modifying suspensions, and the results achieved, is predicated on the desired chassis height: my goal was modestly below ROW 'Sport', and settles in at ~138mm/124mm f/r IIRC: those that lower further towards RS height likely have a far better experience with the H&R's, for I'm guessing that is closer to H&R's intent.