Has anyone regreted changing to the LWF?
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Belmar, NJ
Has anyone regreted changing to the LWF?
I'm curious but has anyone regreted changing their stock flywheel and clutch to the LWF?
Have you ironed out the stalling issues with you LWF or just deal with it?
Have you ironed out the stalling issues with you LWF or just deal with it?
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,684
Likes: 124
From: Boston, MA
Looking back, I'd probably not go with LWF again. City driving, some stalling. I deal with it, but it's not pleasant. Cleaned the ICV. That helped some. Have not tried to adjust it yet. Noise doesn't bother me one bit. It's the stalling that's annoying.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Belmar, NJ
Nile13, have you noticed much of a difference in performance? If you went back to your stock setup would you miss the LWF? If so what would you miss about it if yuu can remember how the old setup felt?
Guru
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,752
Likes: 106
From: yorba linda, ca
Installed several, for the 96 and up cars they are awesome, no stalling issues at all. The 95 cars respond well to them as well, just a modified clutching style is needed. Several 95 owners see to be ok with it.
All of the above provided one can deal with the gear rattle at idle as well as low RPM loads.
All of the above provided one can deal with the gear rattle at idle as well as low RPM loads.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Belmar, NJ
Chris, so many threads I've read have a hard time curing the stalling on a 95 with the LWF. I'm one of those, the ISV is new, the hal has been changed. They can't seem to solve the issue. Someone suggested custom tuning is the way to stop the stalling. Any thoughts on this?
Guru
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,752
Likes: 106
From: yorba linda, ca
Essentially the OBD1 system is too slow to 'catch' the idle with low intertia from the LWF. So, since the stalling occurs after pushing in the clutch from higher than idle speed rev's, you'll benefit from pushing in the clutch at or very near idle rev's. Try it, I think you'll benefit from this style.
Trending Topics
Banned
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 9
From: SF Bay Area
Essentially the OBD1 system is too slow to 'catch' the idle with low intertia from the LWF. So, since the stalling occurs after pushing in the clutch from higher than idle speed rev's, you'll benefit from pushing in the clutch at or very near idle rev's. Try it, I think you'll benefit from this style.
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
Every Era of 911 Owner Explained in One Sentence
Verdad Gallardo
Thinking of Buying a Porsche? Do These 10 Things First
Joe Kucinski
Pixar Pals Turned Into 1-of-1 Porsches!
Michael S. Palmer
Theon Goes Full Carbon Fiber With Stunning New Build
Verdad Gallardo
Genius Porsche-Themed Gifts That'll Make Any Dad or Grad Smile
Joe Kucinski
10 Used Porsches Are Selling for Way Too Cheap
Joe Kucinski
Tuner Is Converting Porsche 911s Into Shooting Brakes
Verdad Gallardo
This Coachbuilt Creation Is A Modern Take on the Legendary Porsche 917
Verdad Gallardo
Is This Convertible Cayenne A Steal, Or A Returnless Investment?
Verdad Gallardo
Pro
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 511
Likes: 5
From: Portland, Oregon 97205
lwf
i had lwf in a 1990 c4, so bad i had to change it back to dual mass, very noisey and stalled often.
had one in my rs america, better but still stalled occasionally.
had one in my 97 c4s, better yet, a little noisey and fewer stalls.
a friend had one put in his 96 c2, i drove it and it was quiet, smooth, and no stalls, it really improved the performance of his car.
i would be scared to pay the money to do it again because it seems to be a bit of a gamble.
some come out great but many have annoying issues.
jeff
had one in my rs america, better but still stalled occasionally.
had one in my 97 c4s, better yet, a little noisey and fewer stalls.
a friend had one put in his 96 c2, i drove it and it was quiet, smooth, and no stalls, it really improved the performance of his car.
i would be scared to pay the money to do it again because it seems to be a bit of a gamble.
some come out great but many have annoying issues.
jeff
Guru
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,752
Likes: 106
From: yorba linda, ca
From what I understand, at coast (throttle plate angle = closed) the injectors are shut off, when the ECU see's idle RPM, injectors are enable for idle circuit duty cycle. The OBD1 system isnt quick enough to 'catch' the idle and stalling occurs before the engine management can 'save' the idle.
Steve W., Loren and others are more in tune with this than I am and may be able to shed light on this better than I.
Steve W., Loren and others are more in tune with this than I am and may be able to shed light on this better than I.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Belmar, NJ
Chris, I've been told what you are describing and it makes sense. I'm just wondering how many have resolved their issue with a custom tune specific to this problem. Anybody out there resolved this with a custom tune if there is such a thing?
Banned
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 9
From: SF Bay Area
From what I understand, at coast (throttle plate angle = closed) the injectors are shut off, when the ECU see's idle RPM, injectors are enable for idle circuit duty cycle. The OBD1 system isnt quick enough to 'catch' the idle and stalling occurs before the engine management can 'save' the idle.
Steve W., Loren and others are more in tune with this than I am and may be able to shed light on this better than I.
Steve W., Loren and others are more in tune with this than I am and may be able to shed light on this better than I.
Though I doubt it, I wonder if the stalling could be related in some way to the induction system as both the US OBD-II and RS cars have v-ram.Another more likely theory is that the earlier 95 cars are more prone to stalling than the later 95s. (Nile, is you car an early 95?) Recall that there are 2 versions of the non-drive block ECU for the US 95 cars. (For those of you who are interested, there's more info on the ecu differences in my v-ram conversion write-up). Perhaps the later 95 ecu (which is v-ram compatable with the right chip) is also better able to compensate for the LWF.
(I just love this stuff)
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Belmar, NJ
jmarch, I hope you are on to something here. Hopefully some more of the experts will chime in here and offer their thoughts. I did talk to Steve W over the phone about two weeks ago and this is what his thoughts were on the subject
1) The Idle Stabilizer Valve, ISV is worn/sluggish and should be cleaned or replaced, it cannot keep up with the flywheel in this condition and can’t respond fast enough.
2) Have someone who is really good run a very detailed check for vacuum leaks over the entire intake manifold system. Heat and age take their toll on all the rubber parts and it takes VERY little false air to cause a stall with the LWF setup.
3) The Mass Air Flow sensor is dirty and needs to be cleaned
4) The Throttle body also needs to be cleaned
5) The last option is to have the car chipped with the proper settings to account for the flywheel and such.
1) The Idle Stabilizer Valve, ISV is worn/sluggish and should be cleaned or replaced, it cannot keep up with the flywheel in this condition and can’t respond fast enough.
2) Have someone who is really good run a very detailed check for vacuum leaks over the entire intake manifold system. Heat and age take their toll on all the rubber parts and it takes VERY little false air to cause a stall with the LWF setup.
3) The Mass Air Flow sensor is dirty and needs to be cleaned
4) The Throttle body also needs to be cleaned
5) The last option is to have the car chipped with the proper settings to account for the flywheel and such.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,361
Likes: 9
From: SF Bay Area
jmarch, I hope you are on to something here. Hopefully some more of the experts will chime in here and offer their thoughts. I did talk to Steve W over the phone about two weeks ago and this is what his thoughts were on the subject
1) The Idle Stabilizer Valve, ISV is worn/sluggish and should be cleaned or replaced, it cannot keep up with the flywheel in this condition and can’t respond fast enough.
2) Have someone who is really good run a very detailed check for vacuum leaks over the entire intake manifold system. Heat and age take their toll on all the rubber parts and it takes VERY little false air to cause a stall with the LWF setup.
3) The Mass Air Flow sensor is dirty and needs to be cleaned
4) The Throttle body also needs to be cleaned
5) The last option is to have the car chipped with the proper settings to account for the flywheel and such.
1) The Idle Stabilizer Valve, ISV is worn/sluggish and should be cleaned or replaced, it cannot keep up with the flywheel in this condition and can’t respond fast enough.
2) Have someone who is really good run a very detailed check for vacuum leaks over the entire intake manifold system. Heat and age take their toll on all the rubber parts and it takes VERY little false air to cause a stall with the LWF setup.
3) The Mass Air Flow sensor is dirty and needs to be cleaned
4) The Throttle body also needs to be cleaned
5) The last option is to have the car chipped with the proper settings to account for the flywheel and such.
This is all great advice (as we'd expect from Steve). Especially #2. I discovered a vacuum leak I never knew I had when I did my v-ram conversion. And, unfortunately, the vacuum system on 993s is all interconnected.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,684
Likes: 124
From: Boston, MA
The difference is there, but for the street it's not particularly noticable (especially in the city). My other car has had a LFW for the last 5 years, so this is not particularly exciting to me. 993 with LFW responds a bit more immediately and feels a little nicer than with DFW, but, again, for a city driven street car it's not a big whoop.