Victory Motors-100% positve eBay rating?
06-17-2008, 03:21 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
06-17-2008, 08:04 PM
#64
Three Wheelin'
06-17-2008, 08:23 PM
#65
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goofball, I am waiting to get the PPI from the Porsche dealer to diagnose my crazy noise from the driveline. They said they will get to it tomorrow. I would prefer to have all my ducks in a row before posting anything on a forum so as to be completely accurate. I'll try to reserve my clever replies for my friends on myspace ;-)
06-17-2008, 09:07 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
goofball, I am waiting to get the PPI from the Porsche dealer to diagnose my crazy noise from the driveline. They said they will get to it tomorrow. I would prefer to have all my ducks in a row before posting anything on a forum so as to be completely accurate. I'll try to reserve my clever replies for my friends on myspace ;-)
06-18-2008, 11:35 AM
#67
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Randy, I have just dropped it off at a Porsche dealer to do a full inpsection and compression test. I have had correspondance with Robert Neal of Victory Motors, Victory Motorcars, and his response is truly amazing. I will be posting all of our emails on this site to try and educate every potential buyer as to the total fraud he and his dealership is. I am confident you all will find this very entertaining, to say the least. Truly unbelievable. I will name the thread "Victory Motorcars -- WARNING!!!!".
Are there any other forums anyone would like to recommend I post this on?
Are there any other forums anyone would like to recommend I post this on?
You know, the repairs on these things are enough trouble, I'm sorry to hear you're getting the hose job from the seller as well.
Pelican is the other major Porsche board I know of.
For prurient value, I'd love to see the e-mails. However, I'm sure the attorneys amongst our brethren here would advise you otherwise. Given what a scumbag Robert appears to be, you think a frivolous lawsuit is beneath him? I say no.
06-18-2008, 06:40 PM
#68
Banned
CAVEAT EMPTOR
First of all, let me say that there is no place for dishonesty. To the extent that a seller (Victory Motors or otherwise) has been dishonest with anyone that is simply awful. I have not purchased from Victory, nor have I visited their showroom although I live in Houston. I have seen a few of their cars on display at our local PCA Concours events.
Let's all keep in mind that, assuming you are buying an air-cooled car from Victory or anywhere else for that matter, the car has completed approximately 10 laps around the sun given that 1998 was the swan song of the ac car so to speak. I have purchased 3 P-Cars in my short existence on the planet, only 2 of which have I paid for a PPI. With my first car I purchased in 2003 (the 85 Targa), I basically had no clue what I was doing but simply wanted one of those Guard's Red P-cars with the cool whale tail, and fortunately for me, I ended up with a great car. No problems whatsoever despite the lack of the PPI.
The second car I purchased in 2005 (964 Turbo S2) I bought more or less sight unseen (internet located) and did not get a PPI on that car. I simply had to have the car given its rarity and because I always wanted a turbo. I had the 45k service done on the car and paid to ship it from Maryland to Houston. Did I hope that I wouldn't have any problems? Absolutely............Did I get some............some would say I got many - I spent an additional $4k on the car within two weeks after it arrived - (Fuel Injection System, Accumulator and Clutch sleeve work) - I may or may not have found these on a PPI. Did I want to spend another $4k, NO WAY. Did I mind? Perhaps a bit, but I was absolutely thrilled to get my first turbo and an ultra-rare one at that. Did the dealer tell me on the phone that "this is a great car", "perfect", "spotless", "simply outstanding" and on and on?? Yes. All of those things, but I fully expected that. Since its arrival to me I have spared no expense on the car since I got it (another 10k or so on top of the 4k) and I do not in any way mind spending the money. I love the car and want it to be as perfect as I can get it. Absolutely love it.
My 993TT I got less than a month ago........somewhat different story. I had the car PPId by an independent shop and tried to use the PPI to my negotiation advantage. I really wanted the car and agreed to pay for the PPI items I wanted to address as the dealer would not cave. I guess a REAL LONG way of saying CAVEAT EMPTOR. You have to know that these cars, even low to no mileage iterations, all have the issue of time in the equation. Do your homework, get a PPI from an independent and reputable shop and love your car. These cars are not inexpensive to maintain properly. I can't say what Victory may or may not have ever done. What I bring to any car sales transaction in my case (unfortunately) is nearly complete and total distrust of anything represented to me by any sales person. I now do my own homework and chose to buy or not buy based on what I conclude and I live with my decision, however shortsighted (964 Turbo S2) it may seem to me, my wife or anyone else for that matter.
Good Luck.
Kind Regards,
Greg
First of all, let me say that there is no place for dishonesty. To the extent that a seller (Victory Motors or otherwise) has been dishonest with anyone that is simply awful. I have not purchased from Victory, nor have I visited their showroom although I live in Houston. I have seen a few of their cars on display at our local PCA Concours events.
Let's all keep in mind that, assuming you are buying an air-cooled car from Victory or anywhere else for that matter, the car has completed approximately 10 laps around the sun given that 1998 was the swan song of the ac car so to speak. I have purchased 3 P-Cars in my short existence on the planet, only 2 of which have I paid for a PPI. With my first car I purchased in 2003 (the 85 Targa), I basically had no clue what I was doing but simply wanted one of those Guard's Red P-cars with the cool whale tail, and fortunately for me, I ended up with a great car. No problems whatsoever despite the lack of the PPI.
The second car I purchased in 2005 (964 Turbo S2) I bought more or less sight unseen (internet located) and did not get a PPI on that car. I simply had to have the car given its rarity and because I always wanted a turbo. I had the 45k service done on the car and paid to ship it from Maryland to Houston. Did I hope that I wouldn't have any problems? Absolutely............Did I get some............some would say I got many - I spent an additional $4k on the car within two weeks after it arrived - (Fuel Injection System, Accumulator and Clutch sleeve work) - I may or may not have found these on a PPI. Did I want to spend another $4k, NO WAY. Did I mind? Perhaps a bit, but I was absolutely thrilled to get my first turbo and an ultra-rare one at that. Did the dealer tell me on the phone that "this is a great car", "perfect", "spotless", "simply outstanding" and on and on?? Yes. All of those things, but I fully expected that. Since its arrival to me I have spared no expense on the car since I got it (another 10k or so on top of the 4k) and I do not in any way mind spending the money. I love the car and want it to be as perfect as I can get it. Absolutely love it.
My 993TT I got less than a month ago........somewhat different story. I had the car PPId by an independent shop and tried to use the PPI to my negotiation advantage. I really wanted the car and agreed to pay for the PPI items I wanted to address as the dealer would not cave. I guess a REAL LONG way of saying CAVEAT EMPTOR. You have to know that these cars, even low to no mileage iterations, all have the issue of time in the equation. Do your homework, get a PPI from an independent and reputable shop and love your car. These cars are not inexpensive to maintain properly. I can't say what Victory may or may not have ever done. What I bring to any car sales transaction in my case (unfortunately) is nearly complete and total distrust of anything represented to me by any sales person. I now do my own homework and chose to buy or not buy based on what I conclude and I live with my decision, however shortsighted (964 Turbo S2) it may seem to me, my wife or anyone else for that matter.
Good Luck.
Kind Regards,
Greg
06-18-2008, 11:26 PM
#69
Banned
Only (1) correction to my prior post: Of the (3) P-Cars I have owned (85 Targa - past, 964 Turbo S2 and 993TT - present), I've only had a PPI on ONE of them. My 993TT.
06-19-2008, 10:22 AM
#70
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And???? How is the turbo? I am hoping for the best for you.
I must have called Robert 6 times over the course of two years about 6-10 different cars. Each time, I got the serious willlies. I am glad I never bought a car from him.
When I researched myself, I found some interesting things:
- Two different (or maybe more) user id's on ebay. One for selling, one for buying stuff like stamped maintenance books, cars, etc.. I think the aha moment was when I found a car on ebay that was bought by Victory. The original seller was very upfront with what was wrong with the car and had very detailed pictures of the leather, paint, etc. When it showed up for sale by victory 7 days later, it was magically perfect. I then searched the secret victory buyer's user id and saw all the stuff that victory buys.
- The pelican boards hate this place. We are relatively nice.
- I spoke with some folks from houston chapter pca. Some were nice since he is a sponsor. Others not so nice.
I must have called Robert 6 times over the course of two years about 6-10 different cars. Each time, I got the serious willlies. I am glad I never bought a car from him.
When I researched myself, I found some interesting things:
- Two different (or maybe more) user id's on ebay. One for selling, one for buying stuff like stamped maintenance books, cars, etc.. I think the aha moment was when I found a car on ebay that was bought by Victory. The original seller was very upfront with what was wrong with the car and had very detailed pictures of the leather, paint, etc. When it showed up for sale by victory 7 days later, it was magically perfect. I then searched the secret victory buyer's user id and saw all the stuff that victory buys.
- The pelican boards hate this place. We are relatively nice.
- I spoke with some folks from houston chapter pca. Some were nice since he is a sponsor. Others not so nice.
06-19-2008, 11:19 AM
#71
Banned
Which Turbo??? - They are both fine. The 964 Turbo S2 (Single K27 High Flow) was just put on the dyno.........making the 381 horses at the flywheel as was advertised by Porsche in 1992.
My new 993TT and the pair of turbos? - Fine as well - but I have not had it on the dyno. Virtual spotless PPI which is why I bought that car from a P-Car dealer here in Houston.
Agreed - I'm a Lone Star member as well and Victory does sponsor our Concours events.
I honestly have the opinion that many, but certainly not all, people who go in search of a 10-30 year P-Car:
1) Don't do their homework (PPI etc.)?; and/or
2) Have some degree of unrealistic expectations for a used car purchase, let alone a used car which may have, when compared to other similarly aged cars, higher maintenance costs; and/or
3) Bring a degree of overall naivate to the transaction; and/or
4) Want a perfect car with no repairs "out of the box"
With anything else it is very much Caveat Emptor as I said previously. The prior owner of my S2 had to deal with some serious issues with the S2 when he purchased the car in South Florida in 1999. He had asked that an independent Porsche mechanic inspect the car in FL before he bought it and was assured that they had. Shortly after he picked the car up in 1999, and on the way back to the NE from Florida he had to have new brakes put on the car in Atlanta ($1000). He also noticed that the engine exhibited a marked hesitation under heavy throttle. Unbeknownst to him, the vehicle’s prior owner had bypassed the fail-safe mechanisms intended to prevent over-boost in the engine and as a consequence, the car was over-boosting and causing significant damage to the valves. The overboost was accomplished by bypassing one of the electronic boost controls, the second control was defective, and the waste gate spring had an aluminum spacer inserted to keep the waste gate open longer to create more boost. Upon examination by his mechanic in the NE, a significant number of head studs were also found to be broken in addition to the damaged valves. Fortunately for me, the repairs made to the engine served to retain and maintain the integrity of the engine and the Andial-installed TS2 kit. All in all - he spent approximately $12k immediately after he bought the car in 1999 and I spent $4k immediately after I bought the car in 2005.
To state the obvious, these cars are not inexpensive to maintain. IMHO - If would-be purchasers of these fine cars can not afford to maintain them properly then they should probably consider another make/model of used car. What I've learned through my P-Car ownership is that Porsche makes some great cars but the owners aren’t necessarily smart people. I have been meticulous with maintenance and I have paid a lot of money to ensure my 964 Turbo S2 is mechanically maintained. Because Porsche makes such a great car you can do this because even an idiot like the car's prior owner couldn’t wreck the engine although he sure tried. Maybe I was the idiot because I bought the car without knowing its current condition (no independent PPI) but even with the money I've put into it I still believe that I got a great deal on an exceptional and unique (ultra-rare) sports car.
Cheers!!
Greg
My new 993TT and the pair of turbos? - Fine as well - but I have not had it on the dyno. Virtual spotless PPI which is why I bought that car from a P-Car dealer here in Houston.
Agreed - I'm a Lone Star member as well and Victory does sponsor our Concours events.
I honestly have the opinion that many, but certainly not all, people who go in search of a 10-30 year P-Car:
1) Don't do their homework (PPI etc.)?; and/or
2) Have some degree of unrealistic expectations for a used car purchase, let alone a used car which may have, when compared to other similarly aged cars, higher maintenance costs; and/or
3) Bring a degree of overall naivate to the transaction; and/or
4) Want a perfect car with no repairs "out of the box"
With anything else it is very much Caveat Emptor as I said previously. The prior owner of my S2 had to deal with some serious issues with the S2 when he purchased the car in South Florida in 1999. He had asked that an independent Porsche mechanic inspect the car in FL before he bought it and was assured that they had. Shortly after he picked the car up in 1999, and on the way back to the NE from Florida he had to have new brakes put on the car in Atlanta ($1000). He also noticed that the engine exhibited a marked hesitation under heavy throttle. Unbeknownst to him, the vehicle’s prior owner had bypassed the fail-safe mechanisms intended to prevent over-boost in the engine and as a consequence, the car was over-boosting and causing significant damage to the valves. The overboost was accomplished by bypassing one of the electronic boost controls, the second control was defective, and the waste gate spring had an aluminum spacer inserted to keep the waste gate open longer to create more boost. Upon examination by his mechanic in the NE, a significant number of head studs were also found to be broken in addition to the damaged valves. Fortunately for me, the repairs made to the engine served to retain and maintain the integrity of the engine and the Andial-installed TS2 kit. All in all - he spent approximately $12k immediately after he bought the car in 1999 and I spent $4k immediately after I bought the car in 2005.
To state the obvious, these cars are not inexpensive to maintain. IMHO - If would-be purchasers of these fine cars can not afford to maintain them properly then they should probably consider another make/model of used car. What I've learned through my P-Car ownership is that Porsche makes some great cars but the owners aren’t necessarily smart people. I have been meticulous with maintenance and I have paid a lot of money to ensure my 964 Turbo S2 is mechanically maintained. Because Porsche makes such a great car you can do this because even an idiot like the car's prior owner couldn’t wreck the engine although he sure tried. Maybe I was the idiot because I bought the car without knowing its current condition (no independent PPI) but even with the money I've put into it I still believe that I got a great deal on an exceptional and unique (ultra-rare) sports car.
Cheers!!
Greg
06-19-2008, 11:32 AM
#72
Drifting
Which Turbo??? -...
I honestly have the opinion that many, but certainly not all, people who go in search of a 10-30 year P-Car:
1) Don't do their homework (PPI etc.)?; and/or
2) Have some degree of unrealistic expectations for a used car purchase, let alone a used car which may have, when compared to other similarly aged cars, higher maintenance costs; and/or
3) Bring a degree of overall naivate to the transaction; and/or
4) Want a perfect car with no repairs "out of the box"
...
Greg
I honestly have the opinion that many, but certainly not all, people who go in search of a 10-30 year P-Car:
1) Don't do their homework (PPI etc.)?; and/or
2) Have some degree of unrealistic expectations for a used car purchase, let alone a used car which may have, when compared to other similarly aged cars, higher maintenance costs; and/or
3) Bring a degree of overall naivate to the transaction; and/or
4) Want a perfect car with no repairs "out of the box"
...
Greg
06-19-2008, 12:00 PM
#73
Banned
Thanks Matt.
I'm certainly guilty of buying my 964 Turbo S2 without eveing seeing it in person. I relied on the pictures and a few Rennlist posts and flew completely without PPI radar and by the seat-of-the-pants so to speak, BUT at the time I had to HAVE that SPECIFIC car. I did not want to pass on the opportunity to own what is one of the most rare iterations of the 911 Turbo in North America, if not in the world. I'm also typically impatient...............which also militates against my waiting for another to appear.
Greg
I'm certainly guilty of buying my 964 Turbo S2 without eveing seeing it in person. I relied on the pictures and a few Rennlist posts and flew completely without PPI radar and by the seat-of-the-pants so to speak, BUT at the time I had to HAVE that SPECIFIC car. I did not want to pass on the opportunity to own what is one of the most rare iterations of the 911 Turbo in North America, if not in the world. I'm also typically impatient...............which also militates against my waiting for another to appear.
Greg
06-19-2008, 12:18 PM
#74
Drifting
About 5 years ago I had to have a '71 Dodge Demon advertised on the west coast and bought it based on a crappy photo and a very optimistic description from the owner . He said it wasn't a rusty car. I replaced the fenders, quarters, trunk and floor with new sheet metal. 
Live and learn.
Live and learn.
06-19-2008, 12:33 PM
#75
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IREGRET TO INFORM ALL OF YOU THAT I WILL NOT BE ABLE INFORM ANY OF YOU ANY DETAILS OF MY EXPERIENCE RELATED TO MY PURCHASE OF MY PORSCHE 993TT FROM VICTORY MOTORCARS IN HOUSTON, TEXAS. I CANNOT SUGGEST YOU DO OR DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THIS COMPANY OR ROBERT LEE NEAL, JR. I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO POST MY RESULTS OF MY POST-PURCHASE INSPECTION EITHER POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE. IT IS MY INTENTION TO ENSURE THAT I DO NOT IN ANY WAY “malign or defame their reputations within the auto industry”. I ASK THAT YOU DO NOT ASK MY ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS EXPERIENCE.
The reason for this is that I have just opened a "CEASE AND DESIST" letter from Attorney Michael A. Rosenberg, Attorney at Law, 122 East 42nd Street, Suite 606, New York, New York, 10168
The letter reads;
Gentlemen:
Please be advised that the undersigned represents Victory Motor Cars and Mr. Robert Lee Neal Jr.
Our clients have forwarded to us your email communications, which leave no doubt, that it is your intention to malign and defame their reputations within the auto industry. The tenor of your comments is regarded as defamatory, per se. Therefore, you are admonished to cease and desist any further communication with our clients and to further cease and desist from any activities which would adversely affect our clients in the course of their business. In the event you persist in your unwarranted diatribe of unflattering and injurious remarks, we have been instructed to take al necessary steps to protect our clients' interest and to preserve the integrity of their business reputation.
In the event that you carry out your threat to damage our clients' business reputation by use of the internet, or otherwise, there will be no further notice given to you other than the institution of appropriate legal remedies seeking all possible and available damages against you.
Your prompt and personal attention to this matter will be anticipated. I trust that there will be no further need for this office to contact you again.
Very truly yours,
Michael A. Rosenberg
MAR:dj
Cc: Victory Motor Cars, Attn: Mr. Robert Lee Neal Jr.
The reason for this is that I have just opened a "CEASE AND DESIST" letter from Attorney Michael A. Rosenberg, Attorney at Law, 122 East 42nd Street, Suite 606, New York, New York, 10168
The letter reads;
Gentlemen:
Please be advised that the undersigned represents Victory Motor Cars and Mr. Robert Lee Neal Jr.
Our clients have forwarded to us your email communications, which leave no doubt, that it is your intention to malign and defame their reputations within the auto industry. The tenor of your comments is regarded as defamatory, per se. Therefore, you are admonished to cease and desist any further communication with our clients and to further cease and desist from any activities which would adversely affect our clients in the course of their business. In the event you persist in your unwarranted diatribe of unflattering and injurious remarks, we have been instructed to take al necessary steps to protect our clients' interest and to preserve the integrity of their business reputation.
In the event that you carry out your threat to damage our clients' business reputation by use of the internet, or otherwise, there will be no further notice given to you other than the institution of appropriate legal remedies seeking all possible and available damages against you.
Your prompt and personal attention to this matter will be anticipated. I trust that there will be no further need for this office to contact you again.
Very truly yours,
Michael A. Rosenberg
MAR:dj
Cc: Victory Motor Cars, Attn: Mr. Robert Lee Neal Jr.