Is BMW The New Porsche?
02-24-2008, 10:44 AM
#77
Three Wheelin'
Although I think that some of you make very eloquent comments about why BMW is not the new Porsche, I think most people tend to forget a few facts:
First and foremost, I’m a hardcore sports car enthusiast with little room for deviations from what I consider a sports car; yet, this is my opinion and only that. I actually own a BMW as well and really like it for what it is.
From my perspective, BMW stopped making solid sports cars about 15 years ago and moved towards the sporty luxury cars arena.
BMW does not have any true sports cars and their "sporty" lineup is filled with porkers (even the entry level 1 series is 300 lbs heavier than the Cayman).
I think that for the most part, Porsche has stayed true to the design and philosophy of building sports cars (the 911 that is).
Porsche entered the SUV market to cash in the craze and be able to continue developing their sports cars (now with the Cayman), which seems to be a sound business decision.
In the end, it all comes down to how a sports car should feel and how it communicates with the driver – none of the new BMW sport cars come even close to the feel of a 911 when it comes to it. I think the E46 M3 is a great car and actually quite capable; however, it cannot be compared to a 911. Actually, when it came down to it, it wasn’t even able to compete professionally against the 911 (most of us probably remember the M3 GTR V8 version attempted by BMW).
And, when thoughts of other “sports” cars enter my mind, I just go down to my garage open and slam shut the door of my 993 – Then I remember why I bought it. For me, this is what makes 911 a 911 and in all justice, it has no substitute (clichés aside). A BMW doesn’t feel this solid!
First and foremost, I’m a hardcore sports car enthusiast with little room for deviations from what I consider a sports car; yet, this is my opinion and only that. I actually own a BMW as well and really like it for what it is.
From my perspective, BMW stopped making solid sports cars about 15 years ago and moved towards the sporty luxury cars arena.
BMW does not have any true sports cars and their "sporty" lineup is filled with porkers (even the entry level 1 series is 300 lbs heavier than the Cayman).
I think that for the most part, Porsche has stayed true to the design and philosophy of building sports cars (the 911 that is).
Porsche entered the SUV market to cash in the craze and be able to continue developing their sports cars (now with the Cayman), which seems to be a sound business decision.
In the end, it all comes down to how a sports car should feel and how it communicates with the driver – none of the new BMW sport cars come even close to the feel of a 911 when it comes to it. I think the E46 M3 is a great car and actually quite capable; however, it cannot be compared to a 911. Actually, when it came down to it, it wasn’t even able to compete professionally against the 911 (most of us probably remember the M3 GTR V8 version attempted by BMW).
And, when thoughts of other “sports” cars enter my mind, I just go down to my garage open and slam shut the door of my 993 – Then I remember why I bought it. For me, this is what makes 911 a 911 and in all justice, it has no substitute (clichés aside). A BMW doesn’t feel this solid!
P.S. I love your MR2!
02-28-2008, 12:25 PM
#78
1st Gear
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I do love my modded e46 M3 but would not even consider buying one of the new bimmers. Stating that bmw is the new porsche is bordering on the obsurd. It's already been said......bmw's have become bloated whales with great engines and offensive styling. It would seem to me that the last thing bmw is trying to build these days is a light, nimble, dynamic car that connects the driver to the road. I'm on the lookout for a beautiful 993 C2S or C4S to compliment my M3......anybody know of one for sale?
02-28-2008, 01:11 PM
#79
Three Wheelin'
Here's a great TopGear show about the X3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nX-bxVLrGg
Very amusing and I think pretty accurate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nX-bxVLrGg
Very amusing and I think pretty accurate.
02-28-2008, 06:15 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
Pretty funny youtube video, "spot on" if I might say so myself.
Love the LR Defender at the very end,...well maybe its a little over the top but that's next on my wish list (D 90)
Love the LR Defender at the very end,...well maybe its a little over the top but that's next on my wish list (D 90)
03-03-2008, 06:54 PM
#81
Rennlist Member
I owned a 95 M3, and yet still prefer my 84 944 with half the power. Some people might call me crazy but BMW does not compare, and I can't wait untill the day I own a 911.
03-03-2008, 09:23 PM
#82
This thread is now closed.
03-04-2008, 01:29 AM
#83
Rennlist Member
Responding to this quote on page 1of this long thread "I have had and still have a few BMW's. I hate the new stuff, mainly based on styling. I think the newer cars are ugly. I love the look of the e39 5 series, the last of the e38 7 series (think 2001 740i sport), etc... "
I would probably never buy a newer BMW than the one I have... (2001 740iS).
The new ones are kind of nice, but they don't pull at me like the earlier cars do. The newer ones have all the HP and doo dads that are cool, but when I walk into a showroom and look at the pricetag vs what you get, the value isn't there to me. I'm a "buy used" kind of guy anyway, so if my current BMW dies like my last 01 740iS did (totalled in a flood), I'll happily do the same thing I did 2 summers ago, search for another 01 740i Sport. It would either be that car or a Japanese car. I'd love to have a MB S55 or E55 used, but couldn't afford the potential problems that come when they're out of warranty. At least with the 01 BMW's, I know just about anything that could come along and know how and where to fix it.
Great thread,
Steve R
I would probably never buy a newer BMW than the one I have... (2001 740iS).
The new ones are kind of nice, but they don't pull at me like the earlier cars do. The newer ones have all the HP and doo dads that are cool, but when I walk into a showroom and look at the pricetag vs what you get, the value isn't there to me. I'm a "buy used" kind of guy anyway, so if my current BMW dies like my last 01 740iS did (totalled in a flood), I'll happily do the same thing I did 2 summers ago, search for another 01 740i Sport. It would either be that car or a Japanese car. I'd love to have a MB S55 or E55 used, but couldn't afford the potential problems that come when they're out of warranty. At least with the 01 BMW's, I know just about anything that could come along and know how and where to fix it.
Great thread,
Steve R
03-04-2008, 01:47 AM
#84
Drifting
My BMW days ended today.... finally sold my 4.6is X5... awesome SUV... but the newer stuff doesn't speak to me... so no, Porsche rules in my eyes. If I ever get another BMW it'll be an older model.
03-04-2008, 08:57 AM
#85
Racer
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I have only owned 1 beemer.. it was a 1991 750IL..
I bought it in '93 and paid $32K for it.
THe dude who traded it to the dealership bought it for $90K 2 years earlier.
I sold it 2 years later for $16K to a friend of mine.
during my 2 year ownership I spent more than $6500 on repairs. Once the top of the manifold SPLIT across the seam and CAUGHT FIRE. No joke.
Run the math on that. If you drew the depreciation curve it would look like a cliff.
The car WAS fun to drive on the highway.. big solid and I could cruise at 100+ and talk on the speakerphone and it sounded like I was in a board room.
But the SADDEST part of this story was that I traded my 1985 911 Carrera in on the Beemer. Black with cashmere and low miles.
True. So I will now repair to my lair and strap the donkey ears on once again.
I bought it in '93 and paid $32K for it.
THe dude who traded it to the dealership bought it for $90K 2 years earlier.
I sold it 2 years later for $16K to a friend of mine.
during my 2 year ownership I spent more than $6500 on repairs. Once the top of the manifold SPLIT across the seam and CAUGHT FIRE. No joke.
Run the math on that. If you drew the depreciation curve it would look like a cliff.
The car WAS fun to drive on the highway.. big solid and I could cruise at 100+ and talk on the speakerphone and it sounded like I was in a board room.
But the SADDEST part of this story was that I traded my 1985 911 Carrera in on the Beemer. Black with cashmere and low miles.
True. So I will now repair to my lair and strap the donkey ears on once again.
03-04-2008, 11:29 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
If you drew the depreciation curve it would look like a cliff.
The car WAS fun to drive on the highway.. big solid and I could cruise at 100+ and talk on the speakerphone and it sounded like I was in a board room.
But the SADDEST part of this story was that I traded my 1985 911 Carrera in on the Beemer. Black with cashmere and low miles.
True. So I will now repair to my lair and strap the donkey ears on once again.
The car WAS fun to drive on the highway.. big solid and I could cruise at 100+ and talk on the speakerphone and it sounded like I was in a board room.
But the SADDEST part of this story was that I traded my 1985 911 Carrera in on the Beemer. Black with cashmere and low miles.
True. So I will now repair to my lair and strap the donkey ears on once again.
I will say this about BMW though, in my case they took care of me when I had a factory maintenance issue. The engine on my 740 was replaced at 49k miles because of the Nikasil issue (low compression on one cylinder) and etching of the cylinder walls. At 163k miles, I discovered the same problem of low compression on one of the cylinders and found out BMW had initially stuck in another Nikasil engine and not the Alusil version they should have. When I complained, BMW NA put another engine in the car; after 9 years and 163k miles. I picked up the labor cost but it seemed fair to me given the age and mileage.
I kept in another 20k miles then sold it to buy the M5. The new engine really kicked the resale value up and I got back a good portion of the labor cost I spent.
03-05-2008, 01:27 AM
#87
Rennlist Member
I love them both equally. BMW is unbeatable in the "sport sedan" in fact they are the benchmark. Porsche is the best in ouright sportscars. A little surprised at the hatred some people have for BMW. In my opinion if you love one you kind of love the other as well.
I am a little puzzled and surprised by people complaining of BMW quality.
97 993 S
02 540i sport
I am a little puzzled and surprised by people complaining of BMW quality.
97 993 S
02 540i sport
