OT:Five Killed In A 2008 BMW M5
01-27-2008 | 02:49 PM
#31
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,121
Likes: 334
From: Los Altos, CA
Hi,
I used to frequent the M5board before Rennlist, even before BMW forced them to change their name. I don't go there anymore because I do not enjoy the behavior and postings of the E60 M5 crowd.
As others have said. I read the entire saga over there last night and I was sick. I hugged my 22 years old daughter and told her to be safe on the road. But I know I will be a lot more sick, beacuse in a few months, I will read about wrongful death suits filed against the air strip owner, John Travalta (the deep pocket), and BMW (the deepest pocket), and each will eventually settle for millions.
This is an interesting society we live in.
CP
I used to frequent the M5board before Rennlist, even before BMW forced them to change their name. I don't go there anymore because I do not enjoy the behavior and postings of the E60 M5 crowd.
As others have said. I read the entire saga over there last night and I was sick. I hugged my 22 years old daughter and told her to be safe on the road. But I know I will be a lot more sick, beacuse in a few months, I will read about wrongful death suits filed against the air strip owner, John Travalta (the deep pocket), and BMW (the deepest pocket), and each will eventually settle for millions.
This is an interesting society we live in.
CP
01-27-2008 | 03:00 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 5
From: Long Beach , CA
Did you notice how someone on the M5 thread claimed that boy-racers should be driving Porsches instead? I guess that's marginally better than being associated with mid-life crisis. I do believe however, that in general, Porsche drivers tend to be fairly mature - in all the best senses of the word.
01-27-2008 | 03:06 PM
#33
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 226
Likes: 2
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Terry,
While I agree that not too many constructive things happen at 3:45 in the AM. But these young men were not high school students. I don't know if they were in college but were all out of high school. I don't know if parents these days have curfews for their adult children. Along that same theme, I wonder if the parents can be sued? Well, it's America so they will be sued but these were not minors and as adults they are responsible for their actions. Now if Josh's parent's supplied the alcohol to these 'underaged to consume alcohol' adults then there may be some negligence there.
I just have a 18 month old and her bedtime is 8:00.
Derek
While I agree that not too many constructive things happen at 3:45 in the AM. But these young men were not high school students. I don't know if they were in college but were all out of high school. I don't know if parents these days have curfews for their adult children. Along that same theme, I wonder if the parents can be sued? Well, it's America so they will be sued but these were not minors and as adults they are responsible for their actions. Now if Josh's parent's supplied the alcohol to these 'underaged to consume alcohol' adults then there may be some negligence there.
I just have a 18 month old and her bedtime is 8:00.
Derek
01-27-2008 | 03:13 PM
#34
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,930
Likes: 70
From: Tampa, FL
I don't think it's fair to blame the kid's age. There are 18 year olds piloting F1 cars...
Sure, we've all made irresponsible decisions. But there are degrees of irresponsible. This kid was just plain stupid, reckless, and had no regard for his life or the lives of his friends. To blame his age or his parents is missing the point. Ultimately the driver is to blame. As ALWAYS.
banzai993, I think you're probably right - at least one of those kids was probably smarter than the others, thought to himself "this is stupid, as soon as this is over I'll know never to ride with him again."
Sure, we've all made irresponsible decisions. But there are degrees of irresponsible. This kid was just plain stupid, reckless, and had no regard for his life or the lives of his friends. To blame his age or his parents is missing the point. Ultimately the driver is to blame. As ALWAYS.
banzai993, I think you're probably right - at least one of those kids was probably smarter than the others, thought to himself "this is stupid, as soon as this is over I'll know never to ride with him again."
This kid just made some spectacularly poor decisions, that cost him and his friends their lives...
01-27-2008 | 03:32 PM
#35
Racer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
terrible tragedy, condolences to the parents and may the five rest in peace.
We have no idea of the circumstances that brought about this tragic accident. In my opinion the only person to blame is the nut behind the wheel. You guys stateside back in the sixties could buy 300, 400, 500 bhp monsters off the shelf, no brakes, dubious handling, no safety features at all and traction control is down to the right hand pedal. I guess you either learnt respect and how to drive or you mashed it up. I own a 1970 Z28/RS Camaro with a 500bhp 427 big block. At least it has a lap belt
We have no idea of the circumstances that brought about this tragic accident. In my opinion the only person to blame is the nut behind the wheel. You guys stateside back in the sixties could buy 300, 400, 500 bhp monsters off the shelf, no brakes, dubious handling, no safety features at all and traction control is down to the right hand pedal. I guess you either learnt respect and how to drive or you mashed it up. I own a 1970 Z28/RS Camaro with a 500bhp 427 big block. At least it has a lap belt
01-27-2008 | 03:34 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,343
Likes: 99
From: Nassau, Bahamas and Duluth, Ga.
Its easy to criticize and my heart goes out to them, but I'd sure hate to be the parents of the driver for a variety of reasons:
1. I've lost my child
2. My parenting contributed to the loss (assuming they bought the car and did not oversee its use)
3. My parenting (in)directly contributed to the loss of four other lives
It could have been a Ford Taurus but fast cars, late nights and teenagers is a volatile combination- you don't even need to add alcohol or drugs, but they often are and exacerbate the problem.
1. I've lost my child
2. My parenting contributed to the loss (assuming they bought the car and did not oversee its use)
3. My parenting (in)directly contributed to the loss of four other lives
It could have been a Ford Taurus but fast cars, late nights and teenagers is a volatile combination- you don't even need to add alcohol or drugs, but they often are and exacerbate the problem.
01-27-2008 | 04:12 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,608
Likes: 562
From: Dahlonega, Georgia
Terry,
While I agree that not too many constructive things happen at 3:45 in the AM. But these young men were not high school students. I don't know if they were in college but were all out of high school. I don't know if parents these days have curfews for their adult children. Along that same theme, I wonder if the parents can be sued? Well, it's America so they will be sued but these were not minors and as adults they are responsible for their actions. Now if Josh's parent's supplied the alcohol to these 'underaged to consume alcohol' adults then there may be some negligence there.
I just have a 18 month old and her bedtime is 8:00.
Derek
While I agree that not too many constructive things happen at 3:45 in the AM. But these young men were not high school students. I don't know if they were in college but were all out of high school. I don't know if parents these days have curfews for their adult children. Along that same theme, I wonder if the parents can be sued? Well, it's America so they will be sued but these were not minors and as adults they are responsible for their actions. Now if Josh's parent's supplied the alcohol to these 'underaged to consume alcohol' adults then there may be some negligence there.
I just have a 18 month old and her bedtime is 8:00.
Derek
Please don't think that I don't have feelings for all involved... I really do.
Any parent that has awakened even one minute past their child's curfew knows how quickly the concern, and even panic, can grow as the minutes pass.
Even when my daughter called to say she would be late (Usually of course after she was already late), the ringing of the phone was totally unnerving until I heard her voice.
I can remember being so relieved at seeing the reflection of her car's headlights on my bedroom wall that it was difficult to get up and chew her *** for being late....But chew I did.
I'm older than many here, but not so old as to not be able to remember what it was like to want to stay out...No matter what the curfew was, we wanted to push it out further...But in my book, 3:45 AM is just asking for trouble.
We can all look back and say, "There for the grace of God and a lot of luck go I." We all have done stupid things. Some of us just got lucky...And others didn't. It will always be that way.
Come get me mother, I'm through....
Terry
01-27-2008 | 04:50 PM
#38
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 499
Likes: 1
01-27-2008 | 05:13 PM
#39
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 3
From: Fairfax Virginia
...he was really cocky and kind of brazen - almost like a punk smart a$$. Not to say he deserved any of what happened, but when you read all he had to say and how he said it, you can almost say that it was just a matter of time. There was one other smart alek kid too with an M5 on that board and I noticed that he kind of shut up during the aftermath posting frenzy. It's really terrible that the punk took the other kids. Too bad kids like that can't be weeded out and sent to the front lines to show what they got. Not sorry to say that I have no sympathy for him or his dads car. The other four I feel terrible for.
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01-27-2008 | 05:38 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,726
Likes: 1
From: Mission Viejo, CA
Oh yeah, it's John Edwards' fault. ***.
01-27-2008 | 05:38 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 5
From: Long Beach , CA
I guess if you're going to speed you should take it off the roads. I'm glad he chose an airstrip rather than the freeway or side streets. But why did the poor fool took have to take his friends with him?
01-27-2008 | 06:30 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 18
From: Los Altos, CA
A Very, Very sad story...may these five young men rest in peace.
Fiery crash kills 5 young men
Troopers suspect alcohol played a role in tragedy
ANTHONY - Details about the tragic car crash at Greystone Airport that claimed the lives of five young men early Saturday are still emerging, and it may be some time - if ever - before investigators piece together all the pertinent facts.
One thing is certain. The families and friends of Jacob James Casey, 19; James Devon Hime, 19; Joshua D. Ammirato, 18; Dustin J. Dawe, 19; and Isaac Rubin, 20, are devastated. All five were pronounced dead at the scene after an apparent high-speed crash that investigators say likely involved alcohol.
Ammirato was driving his father's gray 2008 BMW M5 sedan. The $80,000 car, registered to Santo Ammirato, was traveling north on the 1.5-mile-long airstrip that actor John Travolta and others regularly use to fly in and out of Ocala. Florida Highway Patrol Capt. Jeff Succi said there were yaw, or sideways, skid marks at the end of the runway, indicating the car turned sideways before launching over an embankment. It then sailed through the air about 200 feet before slamming into a large tree and bursting into flames.
Troopers believe the car traveled over the 80- to 85-foot high embankment at the end of the airstrip and struck the tree about 15 feet above the ground. The car broke into two pieces upon impact. Three of victims were ejected from the car, FHP officials said. Succi said the crash appears to be alcohol-related, but added that toxicology reports will provide the definitive answer. Succi said the men apparently had been at a party in the hours before the crash, but FHP was still in the process of interviewing witnesses. It is not yet known whether any of the victims were wearing seat belts. The crash was reported to Marion County Fire Rescue at 3:47 a.m. All five men were pronounced dead between 3:55 and 3:56 a.m. by Fire Rescue paramedics at the scene.
The vehicle came to rest in flames near the home of Augustine and Kristina Berenguer in the 1400 block of Northeast 95th Street. The Berenguers were awakened by a bang and saw flames through a window. They said the nearby crash shook their house. Augustine Berenguer went outside to see what had happened and shouted for his wife to call 911. George Borger, who lives next to the airstrip, said a loud engine noise woke him up at 3:30 a.m. "I saw them going up and down the runway," he said. "I don't know how fast they were going, but they were flying."
NORTH MARION MOURNING
The accident strikes at the heart of the North Marion community as three of the young men are North Marion High School graduates. Hime, Ammirato, and Dawe all attended the school. Rubin attended Forest High School, where he was also a wrestler. Casey graduated from Trinity Catholic High, where he played football before moving on to play for Jacksonville University. North Marion High School's former and current students began gathering at Sparr Baptist Church on County Road 329 at about 2 p.m. Saturday to mourn the death of the five young men. North Marion High School principal Kathy Quelland knew three of the young men in the car.
"They were all wrestlers and involved in others sports and very popular students, so this is going to hit the North Marion community really hard," Quelland said. Kathy Crile, whose son graduated with the men and was on the wrestling team with them, organized the gathering at the church, located on the north side of County Road 329 east of the high school. "We wanted to have a place were everyone could get together and mourn, hug and cry," Crile said as students began gathering at the church. Crile said her son was good friends with four of the young men. Crile, who was obviously shaken, said her son easily could have been along for the ride with his friends.
Superintendent of Schools Jim Yancey said counselors will be made available at the school Monday, if needed. Alainya Frauenshuh, a North Marion senior, was friends with the young men, and said they had all gone to a Trinity High School basketball game and then to a party at a friend's home. They were celebrating Dustin "Smiley" Dawe's 19th birthday Friday night. The FHP's Succi said troopers are investigating reports that alcohol was served at the party. "It's heart-breaking," Frauenshuh said. "I'm praying for their families."
The five accident victims - shown from left to right, first the top row, then the bottom row - were Dustin Dawe, Jacob Casey, James Hime, Joshua Ammirato and Isaac Rubin.
MEMORIAL SERVICES SCHEDULED
After a meeting Saturday afternoon, local officials said there will be a candlelight vigil and memorial service 6 p.m. Monday at the Central Florida Community College Klein Center. "We echo how devastated we all are that this tragedy happened in our community," said Anna Redgate, president of Foundation for Grace, a grief counseling organization. "This is the first step in something that will have great impact in our community." Redgate said counselors will be available, and Dr. Fred Miley, with the Marion County community Crisis Response Team, will lead the event. The memorial service was scheduled during the meeting attended by Redgate, Yancey, Ocala Mayor Randy Ewers, County Commissioner Jim Payton, Ocala Deputy Police Chief Greg Graham and other police personnel. "On behalf of the city, we are deeply saddened by this event," Ewers said. "We want to reach out to the families, friends and all those affected." Information on Monday's memorial service is available at www.foundationforgrace.org.
The Rev. Patrick Sheedy, principal of Trinity Catholic High School, said grieving students gathered Saturday afternoon at Trinity Catholic to talk with counselors.
Sheedy said a memorial service for Casey is planned for 10:30 a.m. Monday in the school's gym. "We are saying prayers for all of the boys at church," he said.
Sheedy spent part of Saturday afternoon with Casey's father, and Sheedy said the father is devastated by the loss. Casey's mother, who lives in Lake Wales, was on her way to Ocala.
RUNWAY MISCHIEF AND HISTORY
Area residents told troopers that local teens regularly sneak onto the airstrip via an entrance in a nearby, ungated subdivision. The airstrip where the accident occurred is used by Travolta, who has a home at Jumbolair. Jeremy Thayer, co-owner of Jumbolair Aviation Estates, said he and wife Terri Jones-Thayer were called just before 8 a.m. Saturday and told about the crash. "We are shocked and sad for the five families," Thayer said. "It's just tragic. I have three children of my own, and I can't imagine living without one of them." He said they did not hear anything unusual on the airstrip overnight. "We are used to noise on the runway at night with planes landing," Thayer said. "And we have had teens out there we have had to chase off, but it's so large it's impossible to stop them all. It's a mile and a half runway, so if someone wanted to get out there they can."
Meanwhile, James Garemore, owner of Greystone Airport, says the teens did not access the airstrip through his property before driving at high speeds down the runway, according to Frank Keasler, Garemore's Jacksonville attorney. Keasler indicated the teens must have gotten onto the airstrip from the Jumbolair side of the development. "This does show the need for more enforcement of the Garemores' rights," Keasler said. "There's no control in Jumbolair, so we'll leave it at that. There is an obvious need for more control." Travolta has been battling the Garemores over use of the runway for more than a year.
Travolta was thrown into the mix in 2001 when he bought land at Jumbolair with plans to build a home. Travolta claims he was assured he would be able to use the airport. According to a federal suit, Travolta reportedly had a separate verbal agreement with the Garemores that allowed him to use the main 7,550-foot runway. Saturday's accident brought the number of traffic-related deaths in Marion County this month to eight. Three fatal crashes have occurred in the past week. This Web link is one opportunity to express your support for the victims' families. http://blogs.myspaceocala.com/Home/t...4/Default.aspx
Staff writers Austin L. Miller, Harriet Daniels, Christopher Curry and Joe Callahan contributed to this report from the The Ocala Star-Banner
Troopers suspect alcohol played a role in tragedy
ANTHONY - Details about the tragic car crash at Greystone Airport that claimed the lives of five young men early Saturday are still emerging, and it may be some time - if ever - before investigators piece together all the pertinent facts.
One thing is certain. The families and friends of Jacob James Casey, 19; James Devon Hime, 19; Joshua D. Ammirato, 18; Dustin J. Dawe, 19; and Isaac Rubin, 20, are devastated. All five were pronounced dead at the scene after an apparent high-speed crash that investigators say likely involved alcohol.
Ammirato was driving his father's gray 2008 BMW M5 sedan. The $80,000 car, registered to Santo Ammirato, was traveling north on the 1.5-mile-long airstrip that actor John Travolta and others regularly use to fly in and out of Ocala. Florida Highway Patrol Capt. Jeff Succi said there were yaw, or sideways, skid marks at the end of the runway, indicating the car turned sideways before launching over an embankment. It then sailed through the air about 200 feet before slamming into a large tree and bursting into flames.
Troopers believe the car traveled over the 80- to 85-foot high embankment at the end of the airstrip and struck the tree about 15 feet above the ground. The car broke into two pieces upon impact. Three of victims were ejected from the car, FHP officials said. Succi said the crash appears to be alcohol-related, but added that toxicology reports will provide the definitive answer. Succi said the men apparently had been at a party in the hours before the crash, but FHP was still in the process of interviewing witnesses. It is not yet known whether any of the victims were wearing seat belts. The crash was reported to Marion County Fire Rescue at 3:47 a.m. All five men were pronounced dead between 3:55 and 3:56 a.m. by Fire Rescue paramedics at the scene.
The vehicle came to rest in flames near the home of Augustine and Kristina Berenguer in the 1400 block of Northeast 95th Street. The Berenguers were awakened by a bang and saw flames through a window. They said the nearby crash shook their house. Augustine Berenguer went outside to see what had happened and shouted for his wife to call 911. George Borger, who lives next to the airstrip, said a loud engine noise woke him up at 3:30 a.m. "I saw them going up and down the runway," he said. "I don't know how fast they were going, but they were flying."
NORTH MARION MOURNING
The accident strikes at the heart of the North Marion community as three of the young men are North Marion High School graduates. Hime, Ammirato, and Dawe all attended the school. Rubin attended Forest High School, where he was also a wrestler. Casey graduated from Trinity Catholic High, where he played football before moving on to play for Jacksonville University. North Marion High School's former and current students began gathering at Sparr Baptist Church on County Road 329 at about 2 p.m. Saturday to mourn the death of the five young men. North Marion High School principal Kathy Quelland knew three of the young men in the car.
"They were all wrestlers and involved in others sports and very popular students, so this is going to hit the North Marion community really hard," Quelland said. Kathy Crile, whose son graduated with the men and was on the wrestling team with them, organized the gathering at the church, located on the north side of County Road 329 east of the high school. "We wanted to have a place were everyone could get together and mourn, hug and cry," Crile said as students began gathering at the church. Crile said her son was good friends with four of the young men. Crile, who was obviously shaken, said her son easily could have been along for the ride with his friends.
Superintendent of Schools Jim Yancey said counselors will be made available at the school Monday, if needed. Alainya Frauenshuh, a North Marion senior, was friends with the young men, and said they had all gone to a Trinity High School basketball game and then to a party at a friend's home. They were celebrating Dustin "Smiley" Dawe's 19th birthday Friday night. The FHP's Succi said troopers are investigating reports that alcohol was served at the party. "It's heart-breaking," Frauenshuh said. "I'm praying for their families."
The five accident victims - shown from left to right, first the top row, then the bottom row - were Dustin Dawe, Jacob Casey, James Hime, Joshua Ammirato and Isaac Rubin.
MEMORIAL SERVICES SCHEDULED
After a meeting Saturday afternoon, local officials said there will be a candlelight vigil and memorial service 6 p.m. Monday at the Central Florida Community College Klein Center. "We echo how devastated we all are that this tragedy happened in our community," said Anna Redgate, president of Foundation for Grace, a grief counseling organization. "This is the first step in something that will have great impact in our community." Redgate said counselors will be available, and Dr. Fred Miley, with the Marion County community Crisis Response Team, will lead the event. The memorial service was scheduled during the meeting attended by Redgate, Yancey, Ocala Mayor Randy Ewers, County Commissioner Jim Payton, Ocala Deputy Police Chief Greg Graham and other police personnel. "On behalf of the city, we are deeply saddened by this event," Ewers said. "We want to reach out to the families, friends and all those affected." Information on Monday's memorial service is available at www.foundationforgrace.org.
The Rev. Patrick Sheedy, principal of Trinity Catholic High School, said grieving students gathered Saturday afternoon at Trinity Catholic to talk with counselors.
Sheedy said a memorial service for Casey is planned for 10:30 a.m. Monday in the school's gym. "We are saying prayers for all of the boys at church," he said.
Sheedy spent part of Saturday afternoon with Casey's father, and Sheedy said the father is devastated by the loss. Casey's mother, who lives in Lake Wales, was on her way to Ocala.
RUNWAY MISCHIEF AND HISTORY
Area residents told troopers that local teens regularly sneak onto the airstrip via an entrance in a nearby, ungated subdivision. The airstrip where the accident occurred is used by Travolta, who has a home at Jumbolair. Jeremy Thayer, co-owner of Jumbolair Aviation Estates, said he and wife Terri Jones-Thayer were called just before 8 a.m. Saturday and told about the crash. "We are shocked and sad for the five families," Thayer said. "It's just tragic. I have three children of my own, and I can't imagine living without one of them." He said they did not hear anything unusual on the airstrip overnight. "We are used to noise on the runway at night with planes landing," Thayer said. "And we have had teens out there we have had to chase off, but it's so large it's impossible to stop them all. It's a mile and a half runway, so if someone wanted to get out there they can."
Meanwhile, James Garemore, owner of Greystone Airport, says the teens did not access the airstrip through his property before driving at high speeds down the runway, according to Frank Keasler, Garemore's Jacksonville attorney. Keasler indicated the teens must have gotten onto the airstrip from the Jumbolair side of the development. "This does show the need for more enforcement of the Garemores' rights," Keasler said. "There's no control in Jumbolair, so we'll leave it at that. There is an obvious need for more control." Travolta has been battling the Garemores over use of the runway for more than a year.
Travolta was thrown into the mix in 2001 when he bought land at Jumbolair with plans to build a home. Travolta claims he was assured he would be able to use the airport. According to a federal suit, Travolta reportedly had a separate verbal agreement with the Garemores that allowed him to use the main 7,550-foot runway. Saturday's accident brought the number of traffic-related deaths in Marion County this month to eight. Three fatal crashes have occurred in the past week. This Web link is one opportunity to express your support for the victims' families. http://blogs.myspaceocala.com/Home/t...4/Default.aspx
Staff writers Austin L. Miller, Harriet Daniels, Christopher Curry and Joe Callahan contributed to this report from the The Ocala Star-Banner