Unhappy with my Bilstein HDs - any suggestions for a substitute
10-31-2007, 06:25 PM
#31
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I completely agree. In fact, I have found that on 8 or 9 the ride is BETTER than the stock Monroes....accept when you hit something big. The dual spring makes a big difference. I have given rides to other 993 owner's and most say they feel it is a better ride over the small bumps.
10-31-2007, 06:25 PM
#32
Banned
Thread Starter
I might. Seems that these will be a lot cheaper than JRZs or Motons. However, I'm waiting to see what Steve (or others) have to say about the longevity of the JRZs and Motons. My preference is to install something and forget it.
10-31-2007, 06:58 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
This sounds right. I have noticed how the construction of the Bilsteins and my Konis differ (you can hold the Koni in your hands and compress it). Steve, this is why I'm doubtful that a revalve of Bilsteins will "fix" the problem and maintain the firmness I'm looking for. Do you agree?
So it sounds like I'm probably looking at either Euro turbo shocks (and the realization that they'll wear out every 30K miles, or to move up to Moton or JRZ shocks and new springs.
Two final questions:
1. For the driving I do, which Moton or JRZ is preferable? Or does it matter?
2. What type of reliability can I expect from these shocks? I know with remote reservoir dirt bike shocks (which are pretty sophisticated), they need to be rebuilt regularly.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I really appreciate the input.
So it sounds like I'm probably looking at either Euro turbo shocks (and the realization that they'll wear out every 30K miles, or to move up to Moton or JRZ shocks and new springs.
Two final questions:
1. For the driving I do, which Moton or JRZ is preferable? Or does it matter?
2. What type of reliability can I expect from these shocks? I know with remote reservoir dirt bike shocks (which are pretty sophisticated), they need to be rebuilt regularly.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I really appreciate the input.
What type of driving do you do? I think the Motons are total overkill for the street and very much the wrong tool for the job. You will end up with a car that is incredibly low, will be forced to run monoballs/camber plates and, unless you go with an ERP camber link, will have far too much negative camber in the rear.
WRT to longevity, the Motons seem to get the nod for durability over the JRZ's. I've had mine for three years and have not had any leaking issues, knock on wood. However, lots of people here have JRZ's or have had JRZ's such as Danny and Greg Fishman.
Another thought on your original issue: is your car so low that you are getting bump steer? Maybe that, along with the Bilstein's hard compliance, is causing the car to feel unsettled over bumps.
Last edited by Mark in Baltimore; 10-31-2007 at 08:38 PM.
10-31-2007, 07:12 PM
#34
Banned
Thread Starter
Hey Joe,
What type of driving do you do? I think the Motons are total overkill for the street and very much the wrong tool for the job. You will end up with a car that is incredibly low, will be forced to run monoballs/camber plates and, unless you go with an ERP camber link, will have far too much negative camber in the rear.
WRT to longevity, the Motons seem to get the nod for durability over the JRZ's. I've had mine for three years and have not had any leaking issues, knock on wood. However, lots of people here have them or have had them such as Danny and Greg Fishman.
Another thought on your original issue: is your car so low that you are getting bump steer? Maybe that, along with the Bilstein's hard compliance, is causing the car to feel unsettled over bumps.
What type of driving do you do? I think the Motons are total overkill for the street and very much the wrong tool for the job. You will end up with a car that is incredibly low, will be forced to run monoballs/camber plates and, unless you go with an ERP camber link, will have far too much negative camber in the rear.
WRT to longevity, the Motons seem to get the nod for durability over the JRZ's. I've had mine for three years and have not had any leaking issues, knock on wood. However, lots of people here have them or have had them such as Danny and Greg Fishman.
Another thought on your original issue: is your car so low that you are getting bump steer? Maybe that, along with the Bilstein's hard compliance, is causing the car to feel unsettled over bumps.
I agree that the Motons will be (expensive) overkill as my car is not tracked (just driven aggressively on the street). My car is not very low (Euro height) and doesn't bump steer noticably. I think the issues I'm having are simply inherent in the Bilstein design (as you and Steve have noted above).
I hate to say it, but I'm probably faced with either 1. waiting until Koni decides to make shocks for my car, or 2. simply purchasing factory Euro turbo shocks and living with the longevity issues. Not much of a choice unfortunately
Cheers,
10-31-2007, 07:35 PM
#36
Banned
Thread Starter
I'm doubtful a revalve of the Bilsteins will get me where I want to be given the construction of the shock. It seems to me (and I don't profess to be an expert by any means) that if the shock is revalved to provide compliance over small bumps, it will be overly soft for my application. In other words, I don't think the Bilsteins can be set up progressively given their high pressure design.
Then again, Joel seems to be happy with his set-up. Perhaps he would be willing to take me for a ride around the block to see for myself. SD is only 2 hours away. What do you think, Joel?
Then again, Joel seems to be happy with his set-up. Perhaps he would be willing to take me for a ride around the block to see for myself. SD is only 2 hours away. What do you think, Joel?
10-31-2007, 08:12 PM
#37
RL Technical Advisor
This sounds right. I have noticed how the construction of the Bilsteins and my Konis differ (you can hold the Koni in your hands and compress it). Steve, this is why I'm doubtful that a revalve of Bilsteins will "fix" the problem and maintain the firmness I'm looking for. Do you agree?
When someone complains or has issues with ride quality, one MUST address the suspension, tires, and tire pressures as an entity since all of these components comprise the "suspension system". Revalving the Bilsteins can help in some cases, others require different solutions. I do not intend to be vague; I simply do not have all the particulars and facts about your car, suspension and tire details, as well as details about how you use the car to make specific recommendations.
So it sounds like I'm probably looking at either Euro turbo shocks (and the realization that they'll wear out every 30K miles, or to move up to Moton or JRZ shocks and new springs.
Two final questions:
1. For the driving I do, which Moton or JRZ is preferable? Or does it matter?
2. What type of reliability can I expect from these shocks? I know with remote reservoir dirt bike shocks (which are pretty sophisticated), they need to be rebuilt regularly.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I really appreciate the input.
Two final questions:
1. For the driving I do, which Moton or JRZ is preferable? Or does it matter?
2. What type of reliability can I expect from these shocks? I know with remote reservoir dirt bike shocks (which are pretty sophisticated), they need to be rebuilt regularly.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I really appreciate the input.
2) JMHO, but I've found Moton's to be quite durable; much more so than JRZ's (see above) and have no issues as long as they are configured, installed and set up correctly. Dirt bike shocks are, quite obviously, exposed to the off-road elements that can wear them out faster than in the street environment. In many cases, we put rubber boots on the shocks under the springs to protect the seals from road grime.
One last thing,......I cannot bring myself to use, sell, nor recommend the installation of the OEM Monroe shocks unless one fully understands their longevity limitations and would not have an issue with replacing them before they are worn out. Given the labor costs for installation, setup and alignment, its unfair to the customer to do otherwise.
Last edited by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems; 10-31-2007 at 08:45 PM.
10-31-2007, 09:11 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
). Their response was that the rears were too expensive to produce to allow selling at a marketable price - so they ceased production.It will be interesting to see if that changes .... but with the weakening $US, I wouldn't hold my breath ..
10-31-2007, 09:30 PM
#39
Bilstein HD's
I agree that it could be a bad shock or shocks. Recently I purchased this kit from Viper Bob off Fleabay and am quite pleased with the ride. Might be the difference of the lowering springs. I would give Bilstein a chance to make it right. Contact them in North Carolina and see what they will do. Best of luck!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suspe...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suspe...QQcmdZViewItem
10-31-2007, 09:32 PM
#40
Drifting
I agree that it could be a bad shock or shocks. Recently I purchased this kit from Viper Bob off Fleabay and am quite pleased with the ride. Might be the difference of the lowering springs. I would give Bilstein a chance to make it right. Contact them in North Carolina and see what they will do. Best of luck!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suspe...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suspe...QQcmdZViewItem
Duuhhh - just saw it on the ebay auction link.
mar
Last edited by Marlon; 10-31-2007 at 09:55 PM. Reason: updated info
10-31-2007, 09:35 PM
#41
Banned
Thread Starter
All,
Spent a good 30 minutes on the phone with Steve. As all of you know, he's a great guy and very generous with his time. Anyway, I think we agreed that revalving is (at least for me) not the way to go.
Spent a good 30 minutes on the phone with Steve. As all of you know, he's a great guy and very generous with his time. Anyway, I think we agreed that revalving is (at least for me) not the way to go.
10-31-2007, 09:43 PM
#42
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Hi Joe,
It would be a good idea to have Bilstein dyno your shocks before revalving just to ensure they are healthy. Just to get a baseline to keep all from chasing their tails.
It would be a good idea to have Bilstein dyno your shocks before revalving just to ensure they are healthy. Just to get a baseline to keep all from chasing their tails.
Last edited by chris walrod; 10-31-2007 at 11:50 PM.
10-31-2007, 10:50 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Busy active thread, that's good....
Above we see, "Wow - I they both look great, but I would lean more toward the one on the right since it appears to be a teen y bit higher than the one on the left. I am also leaning towards M033 springs though."
The writer is referencing the pics of two (2) 993 cars, the one on the right being mine. Correct, the 993 on the right is a wee bit higher in front. Recall, that Monroe shocks (M030) have absolutely minimal threads on the struts for height adjustment. You get what you get, and it wasn't all that bad, cheap too!
M033 springs, I have no experience with them...they are reported to be a bit sorter than the M030, and shorter than stock springs. That may be the way to go...I'll leave that to the Gurus on the Board.
The writer is referencing the pics of two (2) 993 cars, the one on the right being mine. Correct, the 993 on the right is a wee bit higher in front. Recall, that Monroe shocks (M030) have absolutely minimal threads on the struts for height adjustment. You get what you get, and it wasn't all that bad, cheap too!
M033 springs, I have no experience with them...they are reported to be a bit sorter than the M030, and shorter than stock springs. That may be the way to go...I'll leave that to the Gurus on the Board.
10-31-2007, 10:56 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Does anyone know if the front Koni shocks are a direct bolt on or do they require modification?
10-31-2007, 11:47 PM
#45
I'm Still Jenny
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Steve -
What about the Porsche Boge shocks? Are those any better than the Monroes?