Unhappy with my Bilstein HDs - any suggestions for a substitute
10-31-2007, 02:44 PM
#18
Drifting
Get together with someone who knows compression & rebound rates (steve weiner), get the suggested figures and send your shocks in.
ZP44
10-31-2007, 02:48 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Turbo shocks...
We see above, "the factory turbo shocks are a pretty good option until you start putting "real parts" on the car." I don't know about the "real parts", but I do know the turbo shocks (Monroes) and the rest of the M030 set up are factory parts and they fit. I have enclosed a pic. The car on the right is mine (all mine!) set up with M030 Turbo Shocks/Struts and Mo30 (RoW) springs as described below. The car on the left is set up with PSS9 and 993RS sway bars. As you can see, the ride height is pretty similar. The only reason I went away from this set up is that I was offered used PSS9s and ERP monoballs for a good price, AND, I was looking for a competitive edge. In hindsight, it was a dumb move as it moved me up a class to POC Prepared as a result of the PSS9 springs being musch stiffer than stoick.
The Turbo shocks are M030, Red/Rust color. I had a set on my car a while back with M030 (RoW) springs, 22mm front bars and a Euro 993TT 21mm rear bar. I got this set up from the old ANDIAL shop.
The ride was a little stiff...but it was a good set up. Neighbor had PSS9s and 993RS bars. He felt the ride in my car was comparable to his. For the track, the car was very nice.
PS As ZP44 mentions, Jack at Bilstein San Diego does a great job, relitively inexpensive too.
The Turbo shocks are M030, Red/Rust color. I had a set on my car a while back with M030 (RoW) springs, 22mm front bars and a Euro 993TT 21mm rear bar. I got this set up from the old ANDIAL shop.
The ride was a little stiff...but it was a good set up. Neighbor had PSS9s and 993RS bars. He felt the ride in my car was comparable to his. For the track, the car was very nice.
PS As ZP44 mentions, Jack at Bilstein San Diego does a great job, relitively inexpensive too.
10-31-2007, 04:37 PM
#20
Drifting
[QUOTE=Martin S.;4732384]We see above, "the factory turbo shocks are a pretty good option until you start putting "real parts" on the car." I don't know about the "real parts", but I do know the turbo shocks (Monroes) and the rest of the M030 set up are factory parts and they fit. I have enclosed a pic. The car on the right is mine (all mine!) set up with M030 Turbo Shocks/Struts and Mo30 (RoW) springs as described below. The car on the left is set up with PSS9 and 993RS sway bars. As you can see, the ride height is pretty similar. The only reason I went away from this set up is that I was offered used PSS9s and ERP monoballs for a good price, AND, I was looking for a competitive edge. In hindsight, it was a dumb move as it moved me up a class to POC Prepared as a result of the PSS9 springs being musch stiffer than stoick.
The Turbo shocks are M030, Red/Rust color. I had a set on my car a while back with M030 (RoW) springs, 22mm front bars and a Euro 993TT 21mm rear bar. I got this set up from the old ANDIAL shop.
The ride was a little stiff...but it was a good set up. Neighbor had PSS9s and 993RS bars. He felt the ride in my car was comparable to his. For the track, the car was very nice.
Wow - I they both look great, but I would lean more toward the one on the right since it appears to be a teen y bit higher than the one on the left. I am also leaning towards M033 springs though.
The Turbo shocks are M030, Red/Rust color. I had a set on my car a while back with M030 (RoW) springs, 22mm front bars and a Euro 993TT 21mm rear bar. I got this set up from the old ANDIAL shop.
The ride was a little stiff...but it was a good set up. Neighbor had PSS9s and 993RS bars. He felt the ride in my car was comparable to his. For the track, the car was very nice.
Wow - I they both look great, but I would lean more toward the one on the right since it appears to be a teen y bit higher than the one on the left. I am also leaning towards M033 springs though.
10-31-2007, 04:59 PM
#21
RL Technical Advisor
Danny, the reason your JRZ's and my Motons ride are so compliant is because our dampers use a lower pressures and valvings as part of the design as opposed to the higher pressure, DeCarbon design of the Bilsteins. If it weren't for the camber plates and monoballs, my car's ride would almost be plush.
Comparing Bilsteins to Moton or JRZ is akin to a comparison between Outback restaurants and Mortons of Chicago.
All things being equal, Bilstein shocks tend to feel jiggly due to the high gas pressures that these monotube shocks have; around 260 psi. That high-pressure gas preload prevents the shocks from deflecting over small bumps and irregularities in the road.
Moton & JRZ shocks are a totally different design with gas pressures that can be varied from 125 psi to 250 psi (along with valving) that permits a very nice, almost plush ride with the right springs, of course. Naturally, such things do not come cheap and are usually beyond the budget for street use.
That said, I do have several clients that use Motons strictly for the street using the appropriate spring rates and shock setup for their needs. Pretty neat setup.
10-31-2007, 05:15 PM
#22
Banned
Thread Starter
Bingo!
Comparing Bilsteins to Moton or JRZ is akin to a comparison between Outback restaurants and Mortons of Chicago.
All things being equal, Bilstein shocks tend to feel jiggly due to the high gas pressures that these monotube shocks have; around 260 psi. That high-pressure gas preload prevents the shocks from deflecting over small bumps and irregularities in the road.
Moton & JRZ shocks are a totally different design with gas pressures that can be varied from 125 psi to 250 psi (along with valving) that permits a very nice, almost plush ride with the right springs, of course. Naturally, such things do not come cheap and are usually beyond the budget for street use.
That said, I do have several clients that use Motons strictly for the street using the appropriate spring rates and shock setup for their needs. Pretty neat setup.
Comparing Bilsteins to Moton or JRZ is akin to a comparison between Outback restaurants and Mortons of Chicago.
All things being equal, Bilstein shocks tend to feel jiggly due to the high gas pressures that these monotube shocks have; around 260 psi. That high-pressure gas preload prevents the shocks from deflecting over small bumps and irregularities in the road.
Moton & JRZ shocks are a totally different design with gas pressures that can be varied from 125 psi to 250 psi (along with valving) that permits a very nice, almost plush ride with the right springs, of course. Naturally, such things do not come cheap and are usually beyond the budget for street use.
That said, I do have several clients that use Motons strictly for the street using the appropriate spring rates and shock setup for their needs. Pretty neat setup.
So it sounds like I'm probably looking at either Euro turbo shocks (and the realization that they'll wear out every 30K miles, or to move up to Moton or JRZ shocks and new springs.
Two final questions:
1. For the driving I do, which Moton or JRZ is preferable? Or does it matter?
2. What type of reliability can I expect from these shocks? I know with remote reservoir dirt bike shocks (which are pretty sophisticated), they need to be rebuilt regularly.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I really appreciate the input.
10-31-2007, 05:40 PM
#23
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Had Bilstein HD's and MO29 springs on my 993 for the last 6 months and to be honest some days I love the handling and ride (on the occasional smooth road in the UK). The majority of the time they seem to struggle with anything less than a perfect surface and have me gritting my teeth. Went with the HD's after plenty of reading previous posts on Rennlist. If I had my time again I think I would settle for the OE shocks (and accept their longevity) and just use lowering springs for a nice ride height. I use my car as a daily driver and personally think the HDs are too OTT for this scenario - on the right road surface they are perfect but for 'real world' driving I think other alternatives might suit better.
10-31-2007, 06:02 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
10-31-2007, 06:04 PM
#26
Drifting
I am leaning towards ROW turbo shocks with ROW M033 springs. Will likely pull the trigger very soon now...
10-31-2007, 06:10 PM
#28
Banned
Thread Starter
Just got off the phone with Koni. Unfortunatlely, they only make front shocks for the 993. Not sure why they both as I'm doubtful it's a good idea to mix and match shocks front and rear. Also, I'm told the front Konis are inserts which fit into the stock strut tubes. If this is true, I'm guessing we'd need Euro strut tubes to achieve the proper lower ride height. The Koni rep did say that they may have new shocks after the first of the year.
10-31-2007, 06:16 PM
#29
Drifting
Just got off the phone with Koni. Unfortunatlely, they only make front shocks for the 993. Not sure why they both as I'm doubtful it's a good idea to mix and match shocks front and rear. Also, I'm told the front Konis are inserts which fit into the stock strut tubes. If this is true, I'm guessing we'd need Euro strut tubes to achieve the proper lower ride height. The Koni rep did say that they may have new shocks after the first of the year.
10-31-2007, 06:23 PM
#30
Banned
Thread Starter