chris walrod

I only mentioned brakes, not tires and based solely upon experiences from others. I wouldnt have the foggiest idea how things will last as I dont have first hand experience. Just feedback from others who raced these cars in SCCA improved touring classes.

Tires should last you a great deal of time. And, you'll have a blast driving it!!

ceboyd

o.k. well, i'm guessing I'll have to do at minimum a front brake upgrade to at minimum ST40 (brembo 4 pistons).. and might even consider a 6 piston upgrade depending on how much I feel the brakes lacking (if i do)..

..I suspect that ST40 kit will do the job much better..


surprisingly, I've heard some postive things about the stock brakes being really good but I'm skeptical and will wait and see...

38D

While I understand the logic, I think you are missing some things on expenses. The Neon weighs in at 2900lbs, so not really that much different than a 993. However, with stock tire sizes of 205s, you'll probably go thru tires just as fast if not faster in the Neon. Also, you may not be able to get enough camber in the stock setup, so you might wear the outside edge more quickly. Track pads may cost less, but the swept are is smaller, so again, they likely won't last as long. All in all, I don't think your expenses will be that much different.

ceboyd

The lightest documented SRT4 to date is the PVO SRT-4 Extreme Lightweight at 2400 lbs. It was stripped, with a single race seat, roll cage, and carbon fiber hood, front and rear fascias, decklid, and doors with Lexan windows, a side exhaust, SSR Comp wheels, Mopar Coilovers, and Stoptech brakes.

Also,

225 45 17s fit just fine as do 225 40 18s OR 225 50 16s. I'll probably opt for 225 45 17s (just like most people change stock front 993 205 50 17s, you can do the same on the neon)

There is also the fact that I intend on gutting it and weight reduction is pretty easy to come by and there is already a very nice guideline on how much weight can be lost.

BTW: Isnt' the 993 more like 3600 pounds? I forget... but I know it's heavier..

Anyway, I expect the car to loose 200 pounds quickly and easily and 400 pounds eventually...

Here is the official breakdown on the weight reduction numbers:


Removable Items:
AC system.........................22.5*
Front Passenger Seat..........43*
Front Seatbelts...................5*
Rear Passenger Seat...........10*
Rear Pass Seat Back...........30*
Rear Seatbelts....................7*
Rear Deck Cover................10*
Carpet.............................22.5*
Trunk Carpet and Pads........12.5*
Sound Deadening/Insul........20*
Floor mats..........................6*
Spare Tire and Hardware.....28*
Jack.................................4.5*
CD Play.............................4*
Wing................................5
Passenger Air Bag...............7*
Driver Air Bag.....................3*
Head Liner.........................2*
Moonroof..........................26*
Side Windows......................?
Heater Core/Blower...............?*
Variety-small trim stuff..........?*
Front Bumper.....................20
---------------------------------------
Total Listed savings...............262 lbs
Total w/moonroof removal.......288 lbs
*= NASA SRT class legal.........263 lbs
Replaceable Items:
Item_____________Orig. Weight___New Wt.___Change__Total Redux
Wheels and Tires*..................44................32...... .....12............48
Drivers Seat*........................ 43................23...........20.............20
Hood ($900 race version).........30..................3...........2 7.............27
Deck Lid ($800 race version).....23.................3............20... ..........20
Battery*...............................30......... .......11...........19.............19
Springs/Struts (to C.O.’s)*.......20................14............. 6.............24
Brakes-front (TCE/Wilwood)*....11..................7.............4.. ............8
Brakes-rear (TCE/Wilwood)*........................................9 .............18
Flywheel*................................?........ ..........?.............8..............8
Exhaust*...............................45......... .......18............27.............27
Underdrive Pulley.....................?...................?.. ...........?...............3 Radiator*................................7........ .........9.5.........-2.5........Damn!
Front and Rear Windows............?...................?.......... ..?.............a lot
Rear Side Windows (to Lexan)*...?...................?............?...... .........?
Doors.....................................?....... ............9.............?..............?
Fenders..................................5.5...... ..........?.............?..............?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total............................................. ...................................219+ lbs
* Total (NASA SRT race class legal).......................................153+ lbs

38D

When you drove your 993, did it feel like a 3600lb car?

Porsche curb weight is 3,064 for 993s. In reality, most thare are track prepared are typically under this number by ~50-150lbs.

ceboyd

it felt heavier than the neon for whatever reason.. I had the front seats removed in favor or aluminum race seats BUT added weight back with the DAS BAR so I was probably pretty close to 3000 pounds then...

so o.k. then, I guess it's only 100 pounds lighter to start with but I feel better about gutting a neon down to bare metal.. never could bring myself to gut my beloved 993...

luv2ride

Yep chris thats a track rat all right. Now drive the pants off that rat!! Enjoy it.

ceboyd

thanks! I hope to!!!

TheOtherEric

On the cost issue, tires, pads and rotors aren't that huge of a cost factor anyway. For me, they're only $180 of the average $580 total cost of a DE day, i.e. 30%. So that 30% might be arguably reduced a bit, but the other 70% (hotels, fuel to get there, fuel when driving, & event fees) won't change much.

But getting a cheaper car to go racing certainly does make sense. I don't think I could "go all the way" in my 993 either.

p.s. sorry everybody for posting DE costs. I know nobody wants to think about that!!

ceboyd

did you do some sort of number crunching statistic to get at a cost of $180 per day of track tire and brake wear on a 993?

Like I said to everyone, obviously only time will tell but I still feel that overall the operating cost will be less..

AND if I get to the point of full roll cage and spec race car, I'd rather have to replace cheap body panels off a neon than cringe about crinkled 993 bits if a track incident should occur which is MORE likely in an actual race atmosphere with NASA for example... (as well as be in turmoil over replacement cost parts from someplace like la dismantlers because we all know that 993 used parts are NOT cheap)

TheOtherEric

Here are my numbers, with the formulas so you can adjust if needed.

WARNING: Track junkies should read no further.

$100 Tires: $1000 / 10
$45 Brake pads: $450 / 10
$24 Brake rotors: $600 / 25
$6 Brake fluid: $12 / 2
$8 Oil & filters: ($60+20)/10
$100 Hotel
$56 Gas to/from event 200 miles away
$80 Depreciation charge: $0.20/mile*
$50 Gas used at event
$110 Event fees; approx $80 or $170
$579

* Would be lower for cheaper cars.

ceboyd

are you seriously able to get 10 days out of your tires with 2 of you driving your 993? that's darn impressive if yes! do toyo's last that long? ..and where are you able to get the toyo's for only $1000 for the 993 anyway?

TheOtherEric

My Toyo RA1 rears got about 7-8 days but the fronts are closer to 12-13 at least, so yup 10 is about right. Plus 10 days for MPSCs is typical. This assumes just one driver. Got my toyos 18" from Frisbee for $1020 installed IIRC. The SSRs were a lot cheaper and had the same life. Before that I got MPSC's from TireRack for $1060 installed.

David '96 993

That is impressive. Are these de's or races? It might be a different set of conditions. My Spec car is 2600lbs with driver and fuel and I might be lucky to get 25 cycles(30 minute cycle at 4-5 a day) out of them. That is 5-6 days and I rotate them front to back and side to side to maximize life at least once a day.

It is a different car and is racing conditions and that looks like the direction that Chris is going. Just pointing out that she might not get that kind of life out of them. They are a great tire and last alot longer than Hoosiers and a bit longer than Khumos.

TheOtherEric

David, I don't think 30 heat cycles (8 days) that I got on my RA1 rears is anything abnormal. M758 gets 32-35 cycles* in his 944Spec, and somebody else said he can get 200 days on his (which I still don't believe). Anybody who's ridden with me knows I push the tires *hard* so that's not an issue. As hard or harder than Chris, wouldn't you say Chris? So it's a fair data point for her or other 993 owners.

p.s. I might have gotten another day had I rotated them sooner.
* https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/310054-toyo-proxes-ra-1-where-do-you-get-them.html