OT: so it obviously isn't a 993 but will be my 'budget' track car this year...
#31
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Originally Posted by ceboyd
...and the tires being replaced 3x as fast... I;ll believe it when I see it (if that happens)
...again, lighter car, not as fast... and all 4 corners same size to make for easy rotation around the car should eliminate the need to replace any faster than a 993...
on my 993, the rear tires wore out long before the fronts (which also happened to be wider and more expensive)...
And someone made a comment to me about them not being as well built or strong as a 993... I'm sure that is true but that is what a roll bar is for and eventually a cage!!!!
thanks for the insight and observations.
I guess only time will tell if your 3x as fast replacment prediction is true or not!
...again, lighter car, not as fast... and all 4 corners same size to make for easy rotation around the car should eliminate the need to replace any faster than a 993...
on my 993, the rear tires wore out long before the fronts (which also happened to be wider and more expensive)...
And someone made a comment to me about them not being as well built or strong as a 993... I'm sure that is true but that is what a roll bar is for and eventually a cage!!!!
thanks for the insight and observations.
I guess only time will tell if your 3x as fast replacment prediction is true or not!
Tires should last you a great deal of time. And, you'll have a blast driving it!!
#32
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o.k. well, i'm guessing I'll have to do at minimum a front brake upgrade to at minimum ST40 (brembo 4 pistons).. and might even consider a 6 piston upgrade depending on how much I feel the brakes lacking (if i do)..
..I suspect that ST40 kit will do the job much better..
surprisingly, I've heard some postive things about the stock brakes being really good but I'm skeptical and will wait and see...
..I suspect that ST40 kit will do the job much better..
surprisingly, I've heard some postive things about the stock brakes being really good but I'm skeptical and will wait and see...
#33
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While I understand the logic, I think you are missing some things on expenses. The Neon weighs in at 2900lbs, so not really that much different than a 993. However, with stock tire sizes of 205s, you'll probably go thru tires just as fast if not faster in the Neon. Also, you may not be able to get enough camber in the stock setup, so you might wear the outside edge more quickly. Track pads may cost less, but the swept are is smaller, so again, they likely won't last as long. All in all, I don't think your expenses will be that much different.
#34
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Originally Posted by 38D
While I understand the logic, I think you are missing some things on expenses. The Neon weighs in at 2900lbs, so not really that much different than a 993. However, with stock tire sizes of 205s, you'll probably go thru tires just as fast if not faster in the Neon. Also, you may not be able to get enough camber in the stock setup, so you might wear the outside edge more quickly. Track pads may cost less, but the swept are is smaller, so again, they likely won't last as long. All in all, I don't think your expenses will be that much different.
Also,
225 45 17s fit just fine as do 225 40 18s OR 225 50 16s. I'll probably opt for 225 45 17s (just like most people change stock front 993 205 50 17s, you can do the same on the neon)
There is also the fact that I intend on gutting it and weight reduction is pretty easy to come by and there is already a very nice guideline on how much weight can be lost.
BTW: Isnt' the 993 more like 3600 pounds? I forget... but I know it's heavier..
Anyway, I expect the car to loose 200 pounds quickly and easily and 400 pounds eventually...
Here is the official breakdown on the weight reduction numbers:
Removable Items:
AC system.........................22.5*
Front Passenger Seat..........43*
Front Seatbelts...................5*
Rear Passenger Seat...........10*
Rear Pass Seat Back...........30*
Rear Seatbelts....................7*
Rear Deck Cover................10*
Carpet.............................22.5*
Trunk Carpet and Pads........12.5*
Sound Deadening/Insul........20*
Floor mats..........................6*
Spare Tire and Hardware.....28*
Jack.................................4.5*
CD Play.............................4*
Wing................................5
Passenger Air Bag...............7*
Driver Air Bag.....................3*
Head Liner.........................2*
Moonroof..........................26*
Side Windows......................?
Heater Core/Blower...............?*
Variety-small trim stuff..........?*
Front Bumper.....................20
---------------------------------------
Total Listed savings...............262 lbs
Total w/moonroof removal.......288 lbs
*= NASA SRT class legal.........263 lbs
Replaceable Items:
Item_____________Orig. Weight___New Wt.___Change__Total Redux
Wheels and Tires*..................44................32...... .....12............48
Drivers Seat*........................ 43................23...........20.............20
Hood ($900 race version).........30..................3...........2 7.............27
Deck Lid ($800 race version).....23.................3............20... ..........20
Battery*...............................30......... .......11...........19.............19
Springs/Struts (to C.O.’s)*.......20................14............. 6.............24
Brakes-front (TCE/Wilwood)*....11..................7.............4.. ............8
Brakes-rear (TCE/Wilwood)*........................................9 .............18
Flywheel*................................?........ ..........?.............8..............8
Exhaust*...............................45......... .......18............27.............27
Underdrive Pulley.....................?...................?.. ...........?...............3 Radiator*................................7........ .........9.5.........-2.5........Damn!
Front and Rear Windows............?...................?.......... ..?.............a lot
Rear Side Windows (to Lexan)*...?...................?............?...... .........?
Doors.....................................?....... ............9.............?..............?
Fenders..................................5.5...... ..........?.............?..............?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total............................................. ...................................219+ lbs
* Total (NASA SRT race class legal).......................................153+ lbs
#35
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Originally Posted by ceboyd
BTW: Isnt' the 993 more like 3600 pounds? I forget... but I know it's heavier..
Porsche curb weight is 3,064 for 993s. In reality, most thare are track prepared are typically under this number by ~50-150lbs.
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it felt heavier than the neon for whatever reason.. I had the front seats removed in favor or aluminum race seats BUT added weight back with the DAS BAR so I was probably pretty close to 3000 pounds then...
so o.k. then, I guess it's only 100 pounds lighter to start with but I feel better about gutting a neon down to bare metal.. never could bring myself to gut my beloved 993...
so o.k. then, I guess it's only 100 pounds lighter to start with but I feel better about gutting a neon down to bare metal.. never could bring myself to gut my beloved 993...
#38
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Originally Posted by luv2ride
Yep chris thats a track rat all right. Now drive the pants off that rat!! Enjoy it.
#39
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On the cost issue, tires, pads and rotors aren't that huge of a cost factor anyway. For me, they're only $180 of the average $580 total cost of a DE day, i.e. 30%. So that 30% might be arguably reduced a bit, but the other 70% (hotels, fuel to get there, fuel when driving, & event fees) won't change much.
But getting a cheaper car to go racing certainly does make sense. I don't think I could "go all the way" in my 993 either.
p.s. sorry everybody for posting DE costs. I know nobody wants to think about that!!
But getting a cheaper car to go racing certainly does make sense. I don't think I could "go all the way" in my 993 either.
p.s. sorry everybody for posting DE costs. I know nobody wants to think about that!!
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Originally Posted by TheOtherEric
On the cost issue, tires, pads and rotors aren't that huge of a cost factor anyway. For me, they're only $180 of the average $580 total cost of a DE day, i.e. 30%. So that 30% might be arguably reduced a bit, but the other 70% (hotels, fuel to get there, fuel when driving, & event fees) won't change much.
But getting a cheaper car to go racing certainly does make sense. I don't think I could "go all the way" in my 993 either.
p.s. sorry everybody for posting DE costs. I know nobody wants to think about that!!
But getting a cheaper car to go racing certainly does make sense. I don't think I could "go all the way" in my 993 either.
p.s. sorry everybody for posting DE costs. I know nobody wants to think about that!!
did you do some sort of number crunching statistic to get at a cost of $180 per day of track tire and brake wear on a 993?
Like I said to everyone, obviously only time will tell but I still feel that overall the operating cost will be less..
AND if I get to the point of full roll cage and spec race car, I'd rather have to replace cheap body panels off a neon than cringe about crinkled 993 bits if a track incident should occur which is MORE likely in an actual race atmosphere with NASA for example... (as well as be in turmoil over replacement cost parts from someplace like la dismantlers because we all know that 993 used parts are NOT cheap)
#41
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Originally Posted by ceboyd
did you do some sort of number crunching statistic to get at a cost of $180 per day of track tire and brake wear on a 993?...
WARNING: Track junkies should read no further.
$100 Tires: $1000 / 10
$45 Brake pads: $450 / 10
$24 Brake rotors: $600 / 25
$6 Brake fluid: $12 / 2
$8 Oil & filters: ($60+20)/10
$100 Hotel
$56 Gas to/from event 200 miles away
$80 Depreciation charge: $0.20/mile*
$50 Gas used at event
$110 Event fees; approx $80 or $170
$579
* Would be lower for cheaper cars.
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are you seriously able to get 10 days out of your tires with 2 of you driving your 993? that's darn impressive if yes! do toyo's last that long? ..and where are you able to get the toyo's for only $1000 for the 993 anyway?
#43
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Originally Posted by ceboyd
are you seriously able to get 10 days out of your tires with 2 of you driving your 993? that's darn impressive if yes! do toyo's last that long? ..and where are you able to get the toyo's for only $1000 for the 993 anyway?
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My Toyo RA1 rears got about 7-8 days but the fronts are closer to 12-13 at least, so yup 10 is about right.
It is a different car and is racing conditions and that looks like the direction that Chris is going. Just pointing out that she might not get that kind of life out of them. They are a great tire and last alot longer than Hoosiers and a bit longer than Khumos.
#45
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Originally Posted by David '96 993
That is impressive. Are these de's or races? It might be a different set of conditions. My Spec car is 2600lbs with driver and fuel and I might be lucky to get 25 cycles(30 minute cycle at 4-5 a day) out of them. That is 5-6 days and I rotate them front to back and side to side to maximize life at least once a day.
It is a different car and is racing conditions and that looks like the direction that Chris is going. Just pointing out that she might not get that kind of life out of them. They are a great tire and last alot longer than Hoosiers and a bit longer than Khumos.
It is a different car and is racing conditions and that looks like the direction that Chris is going. Just pointing out that she might not get that kind of life out of them. They are a great tire and last alot longer than Hoosiers and a bit longer than Khumos.
p.s. I might have gotten another day had I rotated them sooner.
* https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/310054-toyo-proxes-ra-1-where-do-you-get-them.html