RallyJon

Have to say I'm not quite sure whether to be exhiliarated or apprehensive about how easily my C4 get sideways. Sure it's fun, but seems like the limits should be a bit higher. I'm getting the tail out at normal speeds on several turns just on the way to work.

There's a really nice uphill bend that tightens then opens up and has a slight crest right after the apex. I cannot figure out how to drive it quickly in the 993. The minute it hits the crest the back end comes around, a lot if I go in slow and get hard on the gas, but surprisingly it also comes out if I go in at a steady speed and just try to drive through it. I dare not lift since it's tightening anyway.

This car will be a real handful in the snow and ice.

Mark in Baltimore

Maybe your tires are cold or old or they're just slippery corners. My C2's tail almost never comes out on the road.

The track, however, is another matter altogether.

Ritter v4.0

I drive my car very fast in rain and have yet to have it hint at breaking away or letting go.

I'm not Juan-Manuel Fangio so it must be the car/tires/suspension (HD Bils).

Greg Fishman

What tires do you have? Are you sure the AWD is working correctly?

Might have more to do with the corner you are describing than with any issue with the car?

fast_freddy

What tires do you have and how cold outside is it? Whenever it dips below 45 degrees F here my Pilot Sports don't stick too well especially if its in the AM and it's in the shade. I'm running Blizzaks already for the wnter even though it hasn't seen snow yet.

RallyJon

I'm already on winter tire--Nokian WRs. Just put on Bilsteins, M030s, set up at ROW ride height. Still has 20/17 stock sways. The car actually feels pretty darn good overall. Much less floaty than before.

The AWD does work, but isn't much use there since I'm not really spinning the tires.

It's really more of a feeling that at a certain point in a turn the back end just starts to come out. It's not just that corner.

If I'd just put on a big rear swaybar, that would explain it perfectly.

fast_freddy

How new are the tires? The first couple hundred miles on new tires can be slippery too...

RallyJon

About 1k on the tires. They have a lot of squirmy tread for sure. But this isn't about ultimate grip--it's the weird transition to oversteer. The front feels fine. Seems to bite better now than before the suspension/tires.

I'm thinking maybe I got a bit too much toe out (or lack of toe in) in back. Unfortunately I never got the slip, but he said he put it at ROW specs per Robin's site.

fast_freddy

Had a really twitchy front end last year after I did a similar mod. and alignment. The shop swore up and down everything was to "spec". I bitched and moaned enough, they checked the alignment rack and low and behold it was off. Re-calibrated the rack, re-aligned the car, problem solved.

GrantG

Maybe your front sway-bar mount or drop-link broke?

Bill Verburg

or rubber in one or more suspension links is wornout?

brucec59

My C2 tends to push if anything. I have gotten it sideways a few times, usually when I'm just pushing a bit too hard. I'm still learning to control it. Sometimes when I try to get the back out, I end up in understeer and have to lift before I go into the opposite curb. Other times the back end comes around when I think it should still be well within the limits, like you describe. Tough beast to master.

(I should mention that I'm still on the original suspension, which, at 93k miles, is probably not performing at its best to say the least. Planning on early '07 upgrade.)

gordo993

Remember - lateral grip with almost any snow tire, is going to be substantially reduced.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Gordon is spot-on.

My best advice is to NEVER make any qualitative handling judgements on any winter tires since thats a total waste of time (especially Nokia's due to their flexible sidewalls.)

Save the handling judgements for your normal tires.

gordo993

Just goes to show you - even a blind sqirrel can find a nut now and then!!