Corvette Z06 or Porsche
03-10-2006, 01:36 PM
#31
Passed On
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Gotta agree with many other posts; leave him alone. Corvette is no slouch - it is a peformance car. And bang-for-the-buck it's hard to beat. If he's driven both (and he SHOULD!) and prefers the Vette, let him buy it. After all, it's his money (or are you buying the car for him?).
03-10-2006, 02:25 PM
#32
Originally Posted by TheOtherEric
Costing a lot less than a 997, the z06 is hard to resist. My only 3 concerns about the Z06 are:
1) pretty cheap interior. Start pushing on the plastic and you'll find typical GM cheap design. Not as bad as some GM stuff, but still disappointing.
2) Somewhat skiddish handling. C&D tested the Z06 and viper at a track i am extremely familiar with (Grattan) and they were scared (seriously!) of the skiddish handling in the z06 on the rough course. I think we'll see LOTS of balled-up z06's on the streets.
3) long-term quality. Hard to compete with Boxster/Cayman/911.
1) pretty cheap interior. Start pushing on the plastic and you'll find typical GM cheap design. Not as bad as some GM stuff, but still disappointing.
2) Somewhat skiddish handling. C&D tested the Z06 and viper at a track i am extremely familiar with (Grattan) and they were scared (seriously!) of the skiddish handling in the z06 on the rough course. I think we'll see LOTS of balled-up z06's on the streets.
3) long-term quality. Hard to compete with Boxster/Cayman/911.
Maybe the interior is cheap in the Vette, and the overall fit and finish isn't up to the standards of the new Porsches - but the difference isn't that big anymore imho.
03-10-2006, 03:05 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto Ontario Canada
Posts: 784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
zo6 motor is miles ahead of porsche for durability titanium rods and valves impressive this stuff is the best of the best. Half the people that own these cars dont know what they have C5R conponents
03-10-2006, 03:33 PM
#34
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
I think this is a no win discussion, there never was.
Basically we are talking about a box with 4 wheels, and an out dated internal combustion device that pushes those 4 wheels forward, each does it's own thing is their own way.
I still remember way back when I first started turning wrenches in a mechanics class, and it was all on Chevys. That was what they used in school to teach us everything about cars. I still remember very clearly that I was a die hard Chevy fan, love everything about the car, thought that was the best thing there was. Wouldn't even look at another brand of car, thought they were all junk... Even bought a Corvette badge just to stare at it as it was my dream to own a Corvette. My uncle had a 69 427 Vette at the time, which was a dream come true for me to ride it once in a while. At that time I had a 82 Chevy Monte Carlo, a coupe! Which I thought was the coolest car around for my age, that was before the hydraulic low riders days. My coolest mod were a fake flashing LED on the dash to fool thieves that the car had an alarm.
And then I got a job at a Toyota dealership as an entry level PADI, tune up mechanic... and then I became a Toyota fan.. everything was junk to me, I couldn't believe how stupid Chevy designed their cars and how difficult it was to work on. Sold my Monte and bought only Toyotas after that. Had a 82 Celica GTS, 84 Celica GTS, 82 Supra, 86 MR-2 (my version of a little Farrari, Magnum PI days.......) was totally hooked on installing HKS products on my Supra.. until it was stolen...was the most popular car among car thieves then.
Money was short, so I went to Hondas, was the CRX era. Mugen, Jackson racing parts was the favor of the party... Lowering, cams, exhaust... the whole 9 yard. At that time I felt Hondas were designed better than Toyotas.... So I was hooked on Hondas
For some weird reason I progressed into Mercedes, I think it was my job at the time, suit and tie early days of the technology business.. My first German car was an 88 260E, and then I thought that was the best car in the world, it handled semi good and gave me a bank vault solid feeling, interior was nice and tight. Occasional air bag warning light and power window don't work issues, and bad valve stem seals.. but still a good car and I thought man! this is the best car in the world.
After several mercedes, 94 E320, 96 SL320, 93 300TE 4 MATIC, all problematic I swear I will never buy another MB again.
And then it was the BMW 3 series and the PORSCHE 911!!!!!
That basically ruined me for life. Now there is nothing on the road that satisfy me like a 911, I love turning wrenches on a 911, no matter how stupid the design was or how long it takes me to get a spark plug out. I don't care how much horse power the other pocket rocket have, I still think my 911 is the fastest on the road. I like the under dog feeling, doing more with less cylinders I guess. I like being seen driving my 911, arriving at any designation getting out of the car with my jeans and "holely" t-shirt. I want to be known as a die hard 911 fan, I want to be seen under my car with greasy hair and fingers, I like how it sits on jack stands with everything taken apart.
Sorry for the run on story.
After all these years messing with cars, and owning different ones. At the end of the day it is the passion you have for your box on 4 wheels that counts. So how do you really feel about your car?
Basically we are talking about a box with 4 wheels, and an out dated internal combustion device that pushes those 4 wheels forward, each does it's own thing is their own way.
I still remember way back when I first started turning wrenches in a mechanics class, and it was all on Chevys. That was what they used in school to teach us everything about cars. I still remember very clearly that I was a die hard Chevy fan, love everything about the car, thought that was the best thing there was. Wouldn't even look at another brand of car, thought they were all junk... Even bought a Corvette badge just to stare at it as it was my dream to own a Corvette. My uncle had a 69 427 Vette at the time, which was a dream come true for me to ride it once in a while. At that time I had a 82 Chevy Monte Carlo, a coupe! Which I thought was the coolest car around for my age, that was before the hydraulic low riders days. My coolest mod were a fake flashing LED on the dash to fool thieves that the car had an alarm.
And then I got a job at a Toyota dealership as an entry level PADI, tune up mechanic... and then I became a Toyota fan.. everything was junk to me, I couldn't believe how stupid Chevy designed their cars and how difficult it was to work on. Sold my Monte and bought only Toyotas after that. Had a 82 Celica GTS, 84 Celica GTS, 82 Supra, 86 MR-2 (my version of a little Farrari, Magnum PI days.......) was totally hooked on installing HKS products on my Supra.. until it was stolen...was the most popular car among car thieves then.
Money was short, so I went to Hondas, was the CRX era. Mugen, Jackson racing parts was the favor of the party... Lowering, cams, exhaust... the whole 9 yard. At that time I felt Hondas were designed better than Toyotas.... So I was hooked on Hondas
For some weird reason I progressed into Mercedes, I think it was my job at the time, suit and tie early days of the technology business.. My first German car was an 88 260E, and then I thought that was the best car in the world, it handled semi good and gave me a bank vault solid feeling, interior was nice and tight. Occasional air bag warning light and power window don't work issues, and bad valve stem seals.. but still a good car and I thought man! this is the best car in the world.
After several mercedes, 94 E320, 96 SL320, 93 300TE 4 MATIC, all problematic I swear I will never buy another MB again.
And then it was the BMW 3 series and the PORSCHE 911!!!!!
That basically ruined me for life. Now there is nothing on the road that satisfy me like a 911, I love turning wrenches on a 911, no matter how stupid the design was or how long it takes me to get a spark plug out. I don't care how much horse power the other pocket rocket have, I still think my 911 is the fastest on the road. I like the under dog feeling, doing more with less cylinders I guess. I like being seen driving my 911, arriving at any designation getting out of the car with my jeans and "holely" t-shirt. I want to be known as a die hard 911 fan, I want to be seen under my car with greasy hair and fingers, I like how it sits on jack stands with everything taken apart.
Sorry for the run on story.
After all these years messing with cars, and owning different ones. At the end of the day it is the passion you have for your box on 4 wheels that counts. So how do you really feel about your car?
03-10-2006, 03:47 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by pcar964
... You can't be serious, that you think a boxster or 997 drivetrain will be as durable as the Vette's? ...
Drivetrain is but one component of long-term reliability. Before the pepperTruck was released, Porsche was rated higher quality than even toyota or lexus, according to (IIRC) JD Powers. The pepperTruck obviously tanked their overall reliability, but clearly Boxsters and 911's are going to remain high quality cars. Sorry, but overall GM is not known for durability. But I agree with you that the drivetrain is likely the best thing the Z06 has going for it.
03-10-2006, 04:56 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Motor Trend....
recently compared the 997S to the Z06...the 997S didn't come out well in the acceleration comparison. Duhhhh a 3.8 VS a 7.0 liter or thereabouts, with approximately the same body weight, the big HP car will be the winner. On their figure 8 road test, it seems the 997S had a lot of push...that is no surprise to me. A 993 will push like a bitch until you sort out the suspension with some adjustable sway bars.
They did mention that when you horsed the Z06 around the track for 30 minutes or so, the heat in the cabin was nearly intolerable with the exhaust pipes traveling doen the transmission tunnel...this will never be the case with a 997S.
The Z06 is a fibreglass car...do you want a fibreglass car? I never have although I do think that Chevrolet has done an admirable job with the Z06 {As if anyone cares what I think} Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, I'd buy a used GT3 before I'd get either the 997S or the Z06. Now that is an *** kicking car...OK to bitchin on the street, incredible to awesome on the track! In my humble opinion of course.
They did mention that when you horsed the Z06 around the track for 30 minutes or so, the heat in the cabin was nearly intolerable with the exhaust pipes traveling doen the transmission tunnel...this will never be the case with a 997S.
The Z06 is a fibreglass car...do you want a fibreglass car? I never have although I do think that Chevrolet has done an admirable job with the Z06 {As if anyone cares what I think} Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, I'd buy a used GT3 before I'd get either the 997S or the Z06. Now that is an *** kicking car...OK to bitchin on the street, incredible to awesome on the track! In my humble opinion of course.
03-10-2006, 05:13 PM
#37
Race Car
Amongst other cars, I own both an 02 Z06 and a mint '96 993 Carrera, and love both dearly.
Hands-down though, the Z06 is a better car in nearly every way, especially when it comes to performance.
At Road America, I did 2:31 in my stock Z06 with just track-tires and brake pads. In the Carousel at the apex, my G2X records 1.5 G's.
The only stock Porsche that can keep up with a stock Z06 at Road America is a 996 GT3 (..what a wonderful car that is!). Since we're talking bang-for-the-buck here, the GT3 costs more than twice as much.
One thing I do prefer on the 993 is it's classic dash-layout. As for the Z06 interior, I like it, and do not understand why people bash it; have those same people looked at a 996 or Boxster's interior? In over 3 years of ownership, not one rattle, unlike the 993's incessant windshield-rattle which has been attenuated somewhat by the addition of a strut-brace.
I bought and installed Gert's HD Bilstein's with MO33 springs and sways which was a nice improvement in performance along with an RS-spec alignment (..no kinematic-toe available). Nonetheless, it's resulting cornering does not come close to the stock Z06 with an aggressive street alignment (..-1 degree camber, max caster, zero toe).
Acceleration? It's not even close. Braking? Z06.
I cannot imagine how much more car the C6Z is over my C5Z, but it will be a lot. The C5Z and the 996 GT3 are neck-and-neck performance-wise, but I do not see the same happening with the C6Z and 997 GT3, and give the edge to the C6Z.
I just now remembered that the C5Z did 7:56 at the Nurburgring while the C6Z did 7:42, both on showroom-stock tires. 7:56 is a respectable time, but 7:42 is downright smokin', especially for a $65k car with a 3-year warrantee.
For the cars we like to drive, the track is where it's at for ALL things performance-related. In that environment, there can be no denying the Z06 shines brightly, and even more-so when considering it's bang-for-the-buck.
Hands-down though, the Z06 is a better car in nearly every way, especially when it comes to performance.
At Road America, I did 2:31 in my stock Z06 with just track-tires and brake pads. In the Carousel at the apex, my G2X records 1.5 G's.
The only stock Porsche that can keep up with a stock Z06 at Road America is a 996 GT3 (..what a wonderful car that is!). Since we're talking bang-for-the-buck here, the GT3 costs more than twice as much.
One thing I do prefer on the 993 is it's classic dash-layout. As for the Z06 interior, I like it, and do not understand why people bash it; have those same people looked at a 996 or Boxster's interior? In over 3 years of ownership, not one rattle, unlike the 993's incessant windshield-rattle which has been attenuated somewhat by the addition of a strut-brace.
I bought and installed Gert's HD Bilstein's with MO33 springs and sways which was a nice improvement in performance along with an RS-spec alignment (..no kinematic-toe available). Nonetheless, it's resulting cornering does not come close to the stock Z06 with an aggressive street alignment (..-1 degree camber, max caster, zero toe).
Acceleration? It's not even close. Braking? Z06.
I cannot imagine how much more car the C6Z is over my C5Z, but it will be a lot. The C5Z and the 996 GT3 are neck-and-neck performance-wise, but I do not see the same happening with the C6Z and 997 GT3, and give the edge to the C6Z.
I just now remembered that the C5Z did 7:56 at the Nurburgring while the C6Z did 7:42, both on showroom-stock tires. 7:56 is a respectable time, but 7:42 is downright smokin', especially for a $65k car with a 3-year warrantee.
For the cars we like to drive, the track is where it's at for ALL things performance-related. In that environment, there can be no denying the Z06 shines brightly, and even more-so when considering it's bang-for-the-buck.
03-10-2006, 07:09 PM
#38
Intermediate
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's face it, some people think the vette is the ultimate ride. We know better. Get him to drive a 993; you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him a duck.
E B
78 SC Targa (my girl for 16 years)
91 C2 Targa (what a car)
97 Carerra Coupe (now I understand)
E B
78 SC Targa (my girl for 16 years)
91 C2 Targa (what a car)
97 Carerra Coupe (now I understand)
03-10-2006, 07:12 PM
#39
Swaybar makes some good points. Not that the Z06 matches the older Pcars in terms of quality, but performance-wise his assessments seem reasonable.
When you buy an old Pcar, you get more than just performance - you get quality and character. So the fact that there are other cars out there that will outperform on the track isn't the only factor. But when you buy a new Pcar, you don't get (imho of course) that quality and character, so you better *AT LEAST* get performance on par with the competition.
When you buy an old Pcar, you get more than just performance - you get quality and character. So the fact that there are other cars out there that will outperform on the track isn't the only factor. But when you buy a new Pcar, you don't get (imho of course) that quality and character, so you better *AT LEAST* get performance on par with the competition.
Last edited by pcar964; 03-10-2006 at 07:28 PM.
03-11-2006, 01:05 AM
#40
Instructor
We seem to all be talking about cost/hp.
Someone even said - and I jump all over everyone who says it to me in a bar - that "the Z06 has the
best performance per dollar you can get". Well that's a load. THe best performance per
dollar is a Kia Sephia. It takes twice as long to get to 60 as a Z06 and it costs a quarter as much.
So it's dollar per performance ratio is TWICE the Z06. I can find other examples. It's not too
hard.
The other thing is this. It doesn't much matter what the cost of a car is. What matters is the
difference between what you buy it for and what you sell it for. Meaning this. If you can get a
997S for $75k and sell it in 4 years for $55k, it really cost $20k for 4 years. If you buy a Z06
for $65k and sell it for $35k in 4 years, it cost you $30k for 4 years. So maybe the 997 costs
less to operate ? Not sure how this would work out. I wonder if someone has stats on this.
W.
Someone even said - and I jump all over everyone who says it to me in a bar - that "the Z06 has the
best performance per dollar you can get". Well that's a load. THe best performance per
dollar is a Kia Sephia. It takes twice as long to get to 60 as a Z06 and it costs a quarter as much.
So it's dollar per performance ratio is TWICE the Z06. I can find other examples. It's not too
hard.
The other thing is this. It doesn't much matter what the cost of a car is. What matters is the
difference between what you buy it for and what you sell it for. Meaning this. If you can get a
997S for $75k and sell it in 4 years for $55k, it really cost $20k for 4 years. If you buy a Z06
for $65k and sell it for $35k in 4 years, it cost you $30k for 4 years. So maybe the 997 costs
less to operate ? Not sure how this would work out. I wonder if someone has stats on this.
W.
03-11-2006, 02:11 AM
#41
Originally Posted by wayne325
We seem to all be talking about cost/hp.
Someone even said - and I jump all over everyone who says it to me in a bar - that "the Z06 has the
best performance per dollar you can get". Well that's a load. THe best performance per
dollar is a Kia Sephia. It takes twice as long to get to 60 as a Z06 and it costs a quarter as much.
So it's dollar per performance ratio is TWICE the Z06. I can find other examples. It's not too
hard.
The other thing is this. It doesn't much matter what the cost of a car is. What matters is the
difference between what you buy it for and what you sell it for. Meaning this. If you can get a
997S for $75k and sell it in 4 years for $55k, it really cost $20k for 4 years. If you buy a Z06
for $65k and sell it for $35k in 4 years, it cost you $30k for 4 years. So maybe the 997 costs
less to operate ? Not sure how this would work out. I wonder if someone has stats on this.
W.
Someone even said - and I jump all over everyone who says it to me in a bar - that "the Z06 has the
best performance per dollar you can get". Well that's a load. THe best performance per
dollar is a Kia Sephia. It takes twice as long to get to 60 as a Z06 and it costs a quarter as much.
So it's dollar per performance ratio is TWICE the Z06. I can find other examples. It's not too
hard.
The other thing is this. It doesn't much matter what the cost of a car is. What matters is the
difference between what you buy it for and what you sell it for. Meaning this. If you can get a
997S for $75k and sell it in 4 years for $55k, it really cost $20k for 4 years. If you buy a Z06
for $65k and sell it for $35k in 4 years, it cost you $30k for 4 years. So maybe the 997 costs
less to operate ? Not sure how this would work out. I wonder if someone has stats on this.
W.
We're not trying to determine a strict "bang per buck" here, but rather just a comparison between sportscars. The Vette outperforms the Pcar, and the fact that it costs less has nothing to do with it.
And by the way, I predict the Z06 will hold its value better than a 997S.
03-11-2006, 04:02 PM
#42
Intermediate
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apples and Oranges
Hello All!
I joined Rennlist a while back, but haven't posted for not having my act together....avaitor and money shot of my '98 4S.
But I had to jump in on this topic, having last October sold my '02 C5 black-on-black Corvette coupe for a move into my '98 arctic silver Carrera 4s (full leather package, Xenon headlamps, motor sound, RSR, two-tone power seats w/crest, Rennline pedals along with the word "showroom" to describe the over condition)
The new issue of Motor Trend with it's cover story, Dial 911, is yet another of many recent published comparisions of the Z06 and 911.
It was a good read and covered many of the topics discussed here.
What I really found interesting was the last page of the mag, "Archive", a short piece about the 1970 matchup of Corvette and Porshe. Point being, it's been a great rivarly and will not doubt continue to be.
For me, having owned these cars back-to-back, the difference is simple......one car you point, the other you drive.
And am I ever enjoying driving this car!!
Look forward to taking part in the Rennlist site as it's evident this special car is appreciated by all involved.
Barry
Capistran Beach
SoCal
I joined Rennlist a while back, but haven't posted for not having my act together....avaitor and money shot of my '98 4S.
But I had to jump in on this topic, having last October sold my '02 C5 black-on-black Corvette coupe for a move into my '98 arctic silver Carrera 4s (full leather package, Xenon headlamps, motor sound, RSR, two-tone power seats w/crest, Rennline pedals along with the word "showroom" to describe the over condition)
The new issue of Motor Trend with it's cover story, Dial 911, is yet another of many recent published comparisions of the Z06 and 911.
It was a good read and covered many of the topics discussed here.
What I really found interesting was the last page of the mag, "Archive", a short piece about the 1970 matchup of Corvette and Porshe. Point being, it's been a great rivarly and will not doubt continue to be.
For me, having owned these cars back-to-back, the difference is simple......one car you point, the other you drive.
And am I ever enjoying driving this car!!
Look forward to taking part in the Rennlist site as it's evident this special car is appreciated by all involved.
Barry
Capistran Beach
SoCal
03-11-2006, 04:42 PM
#43
Guru
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Originally Posted by B2
For me, having owned these cars back-to-back, the difference is simple......one car you point, the other you drive.
Welcome to Rennlist!! And yes, pics are mandatory
03-11-2006, 04:58 PM
#44
Intermediate
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 3rd Stone from the Sun.....
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having owned both cars I have to say your comparing apples and oranges.....
The Z is a hands down winner in linear driving, but the Porsche experience is by far the driftable driving condition I prefer....
0-60 was boring for me, 60 mph twisties with a well sorted Porsche gives me a thrill......
The Z is a hands down winner in linear driving, but the Porsche experience is by far the driftable driving condition I prefer....
0-60 was boring for me, 60 mph twisties with a well sorted Porsche gives me a thrill......
03-11-2006, 05:23 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
i have no experience with the new Z06...i do know that the prior years Corvettes would run out of braking ability half way through our DE sessions...that is if they didn't break down first. I realize that it is "cheap horespower" but i wonder about the durability over many years of racing/DEing...maybe the new Z06 will hold up...tell him to buy it and check back with him after 50,000 miles...could be an interesting experiment.