Anir

At Mid Ohio last weekend, my car ran fairly cool most of the time, but temps did creep up near the 10 o'clock mark at the end of each 25" run session - despite having the switch unplugged to force the oil cooler to run on high continuously. Also, ambient temps were only in the mid-70's, so I can see that the problem will only get worse in the heat of summer. Therefore, I plan to add an auxiliary oil cooler.

I'll probably go with the Cargraphic GT model, since it appears much larger than the factory Turbo S model. Two questions:

(1) How much does the Cargraphic unit really affect your air conditioning on the street?

(2) Has anyone with a TT, in a warmer climate, achieved adequate cooling (temps no higher than 9 - 9:30 at the track) with just the Turbo S cooler? My engine is stock with "only" 408 hp.

Thanks!

viperbob

Anir,

Can't answers your questions quite yet as I just received my Cargraphic cooler from Gert and just installed it yesterday. If you have any other question on fit, finish, difficulty, etc, then I'll be able to give you some more info.

BTW, With your new PSS9s you should upgrade your Avatar with a flat cornering Turbo.... But it still looks good.

Anir

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by viperbob:
<strong>With your new PSS9s you should upgrade your Avatar with a flat cornering Turbo....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Like this one? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> (courtesy of good ole' AJ)

<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/MidOhio403.jpg" alt=" - " />

Robert Linton

The Turbo S oil cooler has rather minimal effect. The Cargraphic appears modeled after the factory cooler that fits into the left fender area. If this is the case, it should be considerably more effective than the Turbo S unit. As a thought, however, you might want to price the factory left side cooler system (I believe the part number for the kit is 964 207 022 81R). Finally, either the Cargraphic unit or the factory unit will be detrimental to the A/C system as it reduces flow into the condenser. Having said this, you might want to look at options such as connecting two relatively inexpensive Setrab, Mocal or other similar units that could be mounted to the front of the car and, given direct flow through the grill, might be quite effective without impairing A/C function.

<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/lw13.jpg" alt=" - " />

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<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/lw15.jpg" alt=" - " />

John H. in DC Area

Once again Anir, I appreciate your being the "guinea pig" for a mod that I'm about to undertake. Your timing is impeccable. I'm going to be adding an additional oil cooler in the next month (given my car's upgraded ECU and DC's grueling summer heat, but also in preparation for some track time later). I absolutely need my AC to be effective, so, based upon everything I read at 993tt.com and Robin's p-car site, I was planning to go with the factory Turbo S oil cooler. However, if there is reasonably sound anectodal evidence that both units compromise the AC equally, then I might as well go with the Cargraphic unit.

Jeff 993TT

Anir:

<a href="http://www.993faq.com/archives/cat_engine.html#000222" target="_blank">http://www.993faq.com/archives/cat_engine.html#000222</a>

I called the Mind Over Motorsports ( MOM ) last week about their piggyback solution. Sounds really nice and I'm going to do that. I'll get 100% more cooling, uses all factory parts, and it won't affect the A/C on bit. Might be kind of hard to get to MOM in San Diego if you are in Kentucy though.

If that is the case, then I'd probably go with the Cargraphics one instead. That's probably the 2nd best solution.

I agree with the others that the turbo S would only provide minimal cooling.

Ps, there are tons more threads in the 993 turbo forum. Just search for "oil cooler"

viperbob

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Anir:
<strong>[QUOTE]Like this one? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> (courtesy of good ole' AJ) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Much better, but I think you need stiffer springs so you can do this..

<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/180carrera.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Glen

Guys I have a spare piggy back cooler which is 2 coolers seam welded together with a banjo type fitting to hook up to existing lines. I think it is more efficient to run a loop line though to force the oill to run through both coolers that way the fluid does not choose the path of least resistance. This piggyback can be run either way. Sam Shallala sells the fittings also if you want to run AN lines instead of the cheaper rubber lines that come with the Cargraphic cooler. I will sell the piggyback to someone if they want it. It bolts upexactly where the stock cooler goes and uses the existing mounts and fan.

Glen

Robert as usual your car looks great! Must take a look at it next time I am in the city. Lee said You guys had a great time recently. Hope this finds You well.
Sincerely,

ZCAT3

I am very satisfied with the Turbo S cooler. We had our car at Willow Springs last summer in 110 degree heat. My wife and I used the car back to back, so it saw maybe 6 hours of track time during the day. Our car never exceeded 9 o'clock while on the track. That seems more than adequate to me. I know Andial in So Cal has also stated that they find the Turbo S cooler to be sufficient for high HP 993TTs. Like everything else in the P-car community, I suspect people believe that bigger and more expensive must be better, because, well, it is bigger and more expensive.

p.s. It is also worth noting that my 993TT is running at about 520 HP - which I presume means that when under heavy boost (which is almost the entire track at Willow Springs) I have even more heat to deal with than a stock twin turbo.

Greg Fishman

Anir,
You ought to call Glen and get his piggy back set up. That sounds like a nice solution and it won't effect your AC,etc.

Anir

Thanks to everyone for the wealth of helpful info.

Bob, Jerry (JDW on Rennlist) has already suggested that I need stiffer springs. What I really need is a factory 993 GT2 - for safety reasons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Robert, you solution certainly looks very elegant (big surprise), but I wonder who could do that type of custom work for me locally. I'd love to utilize the frontal area in the bumper, because it strikes me as "wasted" space at present.

Jeff, I had read that 993FAQ and many of the older threads. You guys in Cali have access to all the great tuners! Not fair.

Glen, you've got e-mail.

Kim, it was reassuring to read your post. The Cargraphic cooler sounds like a great solution.

Bill, I've always believed that what's good enough for the factory is good enough for me, and I think the Turbo S cooler would be helpful. However, Porsche Motorsports does make an auxiliary cooler that replaces the air conditioner - so they must believe that "bigger is better" in this case. As I understand it, the Cargraphic unit is simply a recreation of this factory Motorsports model that does not require you to remove the A/C. I figure that if I'm going to mod the car, I might as well pick the best possible solution the first time around. If I ran my car in 110 degrees in its current state, I am convinced that the needle would be well above 10 o'clock. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Robert Linton

Could someone post a picture of the piggyback? Also, please note that when the factory installed the second large oil cooler it generally did so with several modifications to other parts of the vehicle including air ducts in place of fog lights in the bumper (preferably with large inlets, i.e., the aftermarket fog light/air intake kits [e.g., TechArt] are not truly sufficient for race cooling) and a different oil pump in the engine. In other words, like almost everything else on a car, oil delivery is a system and all aspects of the system must be taken into account to achieve the proper result.

Glen

I will post a picture this afternoon. Anir and Eric I got your messages. Eric , I was unable to get the factory unit to fit on the other side while leaving the AC condensor. A Setrab, or Mocal as Robert mentioned would also work. Robert i have found the stock 993 pump will support the dual coolers as it did in the RSCS but You can also install a 996 GT3RS pump in the 993 and 964 with just a bit of machining (clearancing)of the case. The GT3RS pump has dual scavenge although again I have never seen a starvation based failure on a 993 pumped engine, it never hurts to overcompensate on oil pressure and flow...

Robert Linton

I would install the GT3 RS pump (83 liters per
minute, scavenge side 135 liters per minute). In another application, one might also consider the GT1 pump, also used on the Turbo LeMans GT and certain other race cars (83 liters per minute, scavenge side 160 liters per minute). On the other hand, whilst the higher flow pump will offer slightly better performance in cooling terms it will have a higher pressure drop across the coolers. And, regardless, if I was concerned about cooling for racing, I would either (and as clearly the preferable route) remove the condenser (and its weight and that of the entire A/C system which is not only compromised by the left side oil cooler but, which, indeed, itself, compromises such cooler) and install the factory tombstone or mount good coolers with a proper interconnect manifold in front.

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