Seeking advice on an oil cooler
09-01-2003, 05:49 PM
#16
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Wanted to post an update.
I had the Cargraphic GT auxiliary oil cooler installed a couple of months ago, and got a chance to try it out at Road America this weekend. Ambient temperatures were fairly moderate (mid 70's to low 80's), but this long, high speed track keeps me in the boost most of the time and, therefore, generates a significant degree of heat within the engine bay.
The cooler did its job well. The oil temps never exceeded 9 o'clock, and stayed around 7:30 to 8:00 most of the time. I did unplug the factory oil cooler sensor, so the fan would run on high all the time.
I've also driven the car on the street all summer, and the additional Cargraphic oil cooler has definitely kept temps lower even in mid 90 temps. I have not noticed any decrease in the efficiency of my A/C, which was a nice surprise.
All in all, a worthwhile upgrade for those running into overheating issues.
I had the Cargraphic GT auxiliary oil cooler installed a couple of months ago, and got a chance to try it out at Road America this weekend. Ambient temperatures were fairly moderate (mid 70's to low 80's), but this long, high speed track keeps me in the boost most of the time and, therefore, generates a significant degree of heat within the engine bay.
The cooler did its job well. The oil temps never exceeded 9 o'clock, and stayed around 7:30 to 8:00 most of the time. I did unplug the factory oil cooler sensor, so the fan would run on high all the time.
I've also driven the car on the street all summer, and the additional Cargraphic oil cooler has definitely kept temps lower even in mid 90 temps. I have not noticed any decrease in the efficiency of my A/C, which was a nice surprise.
All in all, a worthwhile upgrade for those running into overheating issues.
09-01-2003, 06:51 PM
#17
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Doc:
I'm glad to hear that the CG cooler kit did the job for you,......this is the ONLY thing we use on A/C'ed cars that require improved oil cooling.
Just my opinion, but I have not felt any decrease in A/C operation with the CG cooler in place with the condenser.
LOL,...Its FAR more important for the engine to stay very cool, rather than you,....
As an appropriate side note on this subject,......
I don't know if I ever mentioned this here,... When Kim's Yellow Zonker arrived here for its initial buildup and the engine was disassembled to fix the multitude of oil leaks, we found many major issues all caused by the PO operating the engine at excessive oil temperatures.
The engine required total disassembly to fix oil leaks at the case through-bolts, every seal & O-ring was hard as wood and cracked from excessive heat and 5 of the 6 heads was missing its ceramic port liners. This is NOT uncommon and is caused by excessive cylinder head and exhaust gas temps. Kim bought 5 new heads to fix this.
All-in-all, its MUCH MUCH cheaper to proactively deal with oil temperature issues, rather than waiting for things like this to manifest themselves,..... (off soap box)
I'm glad to hear that the CG cooler kit did the job for you,......this is the ONLY thing we use on A/C'ed cars that require improved oil cooling.
Just my opinion, but I have not felt any decrease in A/C operation with the CG cooler in place with the condenser.
LOL,...Its FAR more important for the engine to stay very cool, rather than you,....
As an appropriate side note on this subject,......
I don't know if I ever mentioned this here,... When Kim's Yellow Zonker arrived here for its initial buildup and the engine was disassembled to fix the multitude of oil leaks, we found many major issues all caused by the PO operating the engine at excessive oil temperatures.
The engine required total disassembly to fix oil leaks at the case through-bolts, every seal & O-ring was hard as wood and cracked from excessive heat and 5 of the 6 heads was missing its ceramic port liners. This is NOT uncommon and is caused by excessive cylinder head and exhaust gas temps. Kim bought 5 new heads to fix this.
All-in-all, its MUCH MUCH cheaper to proactively deal with oil temperature issues, rather than waiting for things like this to manifest themselves,.....
(off soap box)
09-01-2003, 09:10 PM
#18
King of Cool
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Glen,
Did you sell your cooler? I know it's been a while but...
I was thinking Turbo S (I have N/A 993, not turbo) since it's so much simpler to install & cheaper but maybe it's not adequate, or is it (on N/A cars)?
Steve,
Aren't there just "normal" oil coolers that one could install in front of the car (ala old 991's) & connect as turbo S is connected?
Did you sell your cooler? I know it's been a while but...
I was thinking Turbo S (I have N/A 993, not turbo) since it's so much simpler to install & cheaper but maybe it's not adequate, or is it (on N/A cars)?
Steve,
Aren't there just "normal" oil coolers that one could install in front of the car (ala old 991's) & connect as turbo S is connected?
09-01-2003, 09:46 PM
#19
RL Technical Advisor
FF:
LOL....Sorry sir, not really.
When Porsche redesigned these cars starting with the 964's, they made it exponentially more difficult to install an additional oil cooler since the front aerodynamics were redone and the A/C condenser relocated to the LF fender well.
The options are few for truly effective solutions for better cooling on street cars.
Another note here,.....the "Turbo S" oil cooler kits use lines that are smaller in diameter than the rest of the oil plumbing,....I have no idea why Porsche did that. The RSR and CG coolers use plumbing that is the same diameter as the lines that connect the tank to the OEM cooler. IMHO, that is a MUCH better design.
LOL....Sorry sir, not really.
When Porsche redesigned these cars starting with the 964's, they made it exponentially more difficult to install an additional oil cooler since the front aerodynamics were redone and the A/C condenser relocated to the LF fender well.
The options are few for truly effective solutions for better cooling on street cars.
Another note here,.....the "Turbo S" oil cooler kits use lines that are smaller in diameter than the rest of the oil plumbing,....I have no idea why Porsche did that. The RSR and CG coolers use plumbing that is the same diameter as the lines that connect the tank to the OEM cooler. IMHO, that is a MUCH better design.
09-01-2003, 10:05 PM
#20
RL Technical Advisor
Kim:
That cooler is just fine inasmuch as it employs the same diameter lines as the rest of the system.
Its only problem is that the bumper support blocks a good deal of the core from the incoming airflow. Jim Morton has one and performed extensive modifications to mount it, assure better airflow both into, and out of the cooler. Now, its pretty slick,....
That cooler is just fine inasmuch as it employs the same diameter lines as the rest of the system.
Its only problem is that the bumper support blocks a good deal of the core from the incoming airflow. Jim Morton has one and performed extensive modifications to mount it, assure better airflow both into, and out of the cooler. Now, its pretty slick,....
09-02-2003, 12:07 AM
#21
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Another cooler from Cargraphic, the one Kim and Steve are mentioning.
For anyone interested, I installed the Bumper mounted Cargraphic cooler. This cooler is front, center mounted and could not be any bigger. If interested, follow the link and you can see some pix from my install.
Link to Carpgraphic Front Center Mounted Aux Oil Cooler
Although I did not drill any holes in the primary unibody, there was quite a bit of work done to the front bumper. Also, I mounted this differently than the Cargraphic instructions as I wanted to maximize its effectiveness and wanted to give the cooler maximum air flow. Cargraphic's instructions would have had the cooler up more in the actual bumper cavity. I did not feel there was enough area to let the air out from behind the cooler, so I did it a little differently. Also, with the way I mounted the cooler, I removed less bumper material than Cargrpahic's cutout templates...
Enjoy the "food for thought".
Regards
Link to Carpgraphic Front Center Mounted Aux Oil Cooler
Although I did not drill any holes in the primary unibody, there was quite a bit of work done to the front bumper. Also, I mounted this differently than the Cargraphic instructions as I wanted to maximize its effectiveness and wanted to give the cooler maximum air flow. Cargraphic's instructions would have had the cooler up more in the actual bumper cavity. I did not feel there was enough area to let the air out from behind the cooler, so I did it a little differently. Also, with the way I mounted the cooler, I removed less bumper material than Cargrpahic's cutout templates...
Enjoy the "food for thought".
Regards
Last edited by Jim Morton; 09-02-2003 at 12:50 AM.
09-02-2003, 12:41 AM
#23
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I read somewhere that the oil temp. has to be at a certian deg. to make it the most effective. Now adding a Turbo S oil cooler to a n/a 993 will be hurting the engine because that oil will never reach to its normal running temp, therefore it wont be as effective. Correct my info. if im wrong.
For the longest time i wanted to add the Turbo S oil cooler becuase i live in California and its pretty damn hot here considering these cars were designed in Germany and its a colder climate there.
For the longest time i wanted to add the Turbo S oil cooler becuase i live in California and its pretty damn hot here considering these cars were designed in Germany and its a colder climate there.
09-02-2003, 12:44 AM
#24
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Danny:
The first problem would be to source one of the Cargraphic kits with this cooler. While doing this cooler, I also looked at Setrab and found some other candidates as I thought of making up a "kit" if this appeared to be good product potential. In the end, the only thing I used out of the Cargraphic kit was the cooler and lines. Of course, the lines are a major score being the correct length and hose ends to mate up the the stock cooler !
The biggest time issue is the bumper mod. I could do a second one quite a bit faster than this first one. The layout around the the bumper mount was a little tricky, but just meant I had to make it accurately centered.
If you score one of the kits, feel free to PM me and I can provide you a lot of photos and sketches I made along the way.
Kind of a funny, small world, thing. The wrench that worked great to tighten the large banjo bolts was my cherished, Campagnolo headset open end wrench. Nice, thin and strong !
Cheers !
The first problem would be to source one of the Cargraphic kits with this cooler. While doing this cooler, I also looked at Setrab and found some other candidates as I thought of making up a "kit" if this appeared to be good product potential. In the end, the only thing I used out of the Cargraphic kit was the cooler and lines. Of course, the lines are a major score being the correct length and hose ends to mate up the the stock cooler !
The biggest time issue is the bumper mod. I could do a second one quite a bit faster than this first one. The layout around the the bumper mount was a little tricky, but just meant I had to make it accurately centered.
If you score one of the kits, feel free to PM me and I can provide you a lot of photos and sketches I made along the way.
Kind of a funny, small world, thing. The wrench that worked great to tighten the large banjo bolts was my cherished, Campagnolo headset open end wrench. Nice, thin and strong !
Cheers !
09-02-2003, 12:49 AM
#25
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Shant:
There is a thermostat in the system that controls oil flow to the coolers. Essentially, as long as the thermostat is working, you cannot "over cool" by having too much cooler. It's a similar model to big radiators on water pumpers...
Check the factory manuals to investiagte this further.
Regards
There is a thermostat in the system that controls oil flow to the coolers. Essentially, as long as the thermostat is working, you cannot "over cool" by having too much cooler. It's a similar model to big radiators on water pumpers...
Check the factory manuals to investiagte this further.
Regards
09-02-2003, 02:11 AM
#28
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Originally posted by Phil McGrath
hmmm another group buy?
hmmm another group buy?
Thanks for the info, Phil.
09-02-2003, 02:15 AM
#29
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I had always thought putting a front oil cooler across the front would be optimal, like the original RSR's did. Everyone I talked to kind of laughed at me. Glad to see it happening. Hope you can post some details and possibly get a group deal going. I would be interested even though I have the piggyback solution....you can never get enough oil cooling!