tangram

I'm speaking hypothetically here, but I'll throw out the scenario. Assume there are two cars for sale, each identical except one is a C2S, the other a C4S. Price, options, color, mileage, everything the same.

Which car represents the better value? A former co-worker has a beautiful low-mileage C2S for sale. He wants US$67K for it and thinks he'll get it, despite some competition from some very nice C4S's that are for sale in the area. I understand that the C4S is a bit heavier, and hence a bit slower, but the TT is 4WD and few people seem to complain about that.

How about it? Any opinions? Remember, same price, condition, etc.

ca993twin

If you can use AWD due to your weather conditions, than the C4S is a natural choice. Here in So Cal, I'd prefer a 2wd turbo over the AWD, but alas, the 993 TTs don't come that way. I accept the weight penalty because its a turbo, else I'd go for a C2S.

BTW, $67K sounds really high for a C2S. Most are closer to $50K or so. Mid $50s is pretty much top dollar. My turbo cost WAY less than his asking price for a C2S. Go figure.

tangram

I agree on your price comments but the seller begs to differ. Hence my post. He insists that "many" Porsche enthusiasts consider the C2S a better car than the C4S and from his asking price, he also believes that this translates into paying a premium to drive a C2S over a C4S. I hasten to add that this is a garage queen, and thus not likely a track car candidate.

BrokeAss

This is essentially another 2WD vs 4WD arguement that's been hashed over soooooo many times in this forum.
<img border="0" alt="[sleep]" title="" src="graemlins/sleep.gif" />
....it all boils down to the buyer. Some people really dig the extra 'sure-footedness' of the C4S. Others are fans of really big slip angles and like hanging the tail out.

I'd be proud to have either one in my garage!

viperbob

You do not mention the year or the miles, but in any case if he thinks he can get $67K, then I am afraid your friend has succumb to the "Mad Cow Disease" which I hear has just been discovered in Canada. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

If your friends waits a couple of weeks, maybe he can find someone else with the same afflication and the can have a meeting of the Mad Minds...

Fred R. C4S

The C4S goes standard with the Big Red brakes. This alone would decide this for me at equal prices.

ca993twin

A problem with paying a huge premium for an extra low-mileage "garage-queen", is that you will be discouraged from driving and enjoying the car due to the enormous depreciation as you add miles. If you are going to drive and enjoy the car, you may want to look into 30k -&gt; 50k mile cars at a much reduced price. A well-cared for 993 is barely broken in at that point. Or just buy a TT for less money, and blow your buddy away.

Temple

Y'all are forgetting the split rear grill that is exclusive to the C2S. That alone is worth at least a $5000 premium and, I've heard, creates a 'dual ram air effect' that produces an extra 35 HP. At the wheels. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Nor should you discount the grainy leather strip along the dash and doors and the 'Carrera S' tach. Both items are quite valuable and add immeasurably to the driving experience. <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />

Seriously, although the C4S is a tad heavier, its really not materially slower (I believe the official 0-100 KMH times from the factory were the same for both cars).

The real difference is the handling 'feel' through the wheel (very noticeable driven back-to-back), ultimate grip and brakes.

OPTIMO

I was pondering this question as I plan on buying a 993 sometime in 2004 (when my Bimmer is paid off) - and I think I follow the same idealogy that Gordon Murray does - little to no aids, rwd, n/a is the essence of a sports car. I add the n/a because I can't afford a 993 TT or I would jump on it, but out of the n/a 993s, I HAVE to have a widebody and I would choose the C2S because of RWD even though the C4S has the big reds. Brakes can be upgraded cheaper than the transmission I'm guessing.

Both are great cars but I think a C2S is the car I want in the price I can afford. I also considered the E46 M3 and although it's a great car, I already own (or paying on) one E46. I do plan on buying a 2002tii or E30 M3 as a dedicated track car when I sell my Honda.

You should post a poll, but this discussion has been addressed multiple times.

C2S.

DC from Cape Cod

I think a mint, low-mileage 1998 C2S with the right options can easily be worth over $60K.

I just spent 8 months looking and happily paid up for the right car with the right options, the right history and the right terms.

There are plenty of $50K C2S cars out there for sale but I wanted a car that was 99.9%, not 90+% and I was willing to pay for it.

You only go around once and the imperfections in the $50K car would have bothered me far more than the extra $10K.

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it....not what others, who aren't willing, think it is. While I don't agree with the prices you see at Premiere or RPM you should note that they have NOT dropped in the last 6 months and that is an indication of something. Furthermore, the prices of 993TT's HAVE dropped...indicated that the widebody NA cars are holding their value better.

I also have a 2002 E46 M3 for a daily driver and it is a great car....but the 993 gets the garage. I choose the C2S over a C4S as I didn't want the AWD and the weight/cost that comes with it. I don't drive in the snow and won't track this car so it wasn't a criteria for my purchase.

User 4621

I've driven the 2 cars back to back on the street and while there is some slight difference in feel, I would not say one is better than the other. The 4S (which I have) is IMO a bit more "alive" through the steering wheel, in that it moves around a bit more in your hands as the front wheels steer and also pull a bit in a hard corner. This bugs some people but I like it. The 4S understeers more when stock but some money liberally applied to the suspension pretty much dials that out.

The fun roads near my house are in the redwoods and are often damp or a bit slick in the mornings year round, and the 4S gives me some peace of mind (probably more psychological than real).

Looking at a few period magazine reviews, the performance difference is negligible, there is a greater performace penalty for the wide body than the AWD.

The brakes are like the steering feel. The Big Reds get great press, but I doubt you could tell the difference in regular driving.

If you plan on tracking the car I would get a narrow body 2wd car, as it can be made lightest, and the AWD doesn't give you any advantage on a dry track, and weighs about 100 pounds.

If you drive on wet roads, the 4S is a pretty clear choice IMO.

Anyway, it's a Coke vs. Pepsi kind of thing to me. Some people are fervent about one or the other, to others it's soda water.

When I was shopping for a car, here was my list of priorities:

1) Price must be in my range
2) must be excellent condition
3) must have decent records
4) prefer wide body over narrow
5) prefer PSS9 suspension over stock
6) prefer Kinesis or Fikse wheels over stock
7) prefer private party over dealer
8) interior color prefer black, then gray
9) exterior color prefer silver, then arena red
10) prefer under 30K miles
11) prefer 2S over 4S
12) prefer local over distant
13) prefer sport seats over standard
14) Prefer Litronics

I ended up with an excellent condition, well documented 30K mile arena red/black C4S with PSS-9's, Kinesis wheels and standard seats, bought from a distant private party. 2S vs. 4S was 11th on my priority list, and I couldn't be happier with my car. (then again exterior color was 9th on my list when I bet for most people it's 1 or 2, so I may well be a weirdo) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

tangram

Come on you guys! It is so funny to watch these threads go "off-thread" so quickly!

First, I said he was a former co-worker, not a friend. You can read between the lines on that one!

Second, I'm not interested in the car. I love the one I already own.

Third, I am most interested in people commenting on a direct comparison of the 2S with the 4S assuming you could buy either car for the same price, optioned the same, same mileage, same overall condition. I UNDERSTAND that 2 vs. 4WD has been hashed over before, but what about at the same price point?

Fourth, what's another pestilence to deal with? Heck, we've already had to deal with SARS and I live in the #1 region in North America for rate of West Nile Virus infection. Who cares about a little Mad Cow thrown into the mix. When you have to endure 10 months of winter every year, you become a pretty hardy bunch.

Am I mistaken in believing the 4S was a relatively more expensive car when new vs. the 2S? Now we have guys who think that not only the 2S is worthy of the same price as a 4S but that it deserves a premium! Considering this would not find its way to a track, and given the advantages of 4WD in the Great White North (if you wished to drive such a beautiful car in the winter), I am still curious.

ALL things being equal, which one would you buy?

tangram

Oh, and one last thing. He's asking C$90K and has been for several months. The weaker US$ is what results in that eyepopping asking price. At the beginning of the year, C$90K would have translated into US$58K. Since U.S. prices arguably set the North American market price for used Porsches, I think he'll have to come down to sell it given the current f/x situation.

laurence '97 C4S

I voted with my wallet when I bought my '97 C4S in 1997. If I'd wanted a C2S I would have bought one. For me, the C4S was the most evolved NA 993 (read-911) that Porsche has made. Though mine is not for sale, there is no way I would let it go for some of the $ ranges I hear people say.

I firmly believe that C4S'and C2S' in original condition, with low miles, are going to do quite well from a value stand point in the years to come. They are classics courtesy of Porsche switching over to water cooled engines. The marketplace is already recognizing this fact -- witness the price of low mile, clean cars.

RJT

well... DC from CapeCod said everything I was going to say! 100% agree. I bought my C2S after driving several 2S and 4S cars. The 2S just seemed a little more responsive because of the lighter front end. It's really a personal preference.
I did shop Premeire and RPM and neither would budge on their prices. But you know what...They are selling them at those prices!