C2S or C4S? Which would you buy?
05-20-2003, 11:40 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Easy choice for me. Better handling and safer in the wet and wacky weather? C4S for me. Less worrisome when the freak storm hits on the way back from the beach and you're on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge when it's torrentially raining? Again, C4S.
Besides, for some reason I was really attracted to that "4" on the back of the car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . Love it. It reminds me that I've always wanted a 4 wheel drive car, but didn't REALLY want to any of the offerings I'd seen from Audi.
It's all good. I was driving home tonight and I hear a loud "beep". I look over and see 2 guys in a perfect Arena Red 96 C4S. They lean over and ask me what year I have, and I tell them it's a 96. They smiled and said "same thing". Believe it or not, this is the first 96-98 C4S I've seen in this area (Rockville MD) since I got my car 5 months ago! They really are quite rare here, unlike California or Florida.
Steve
Besides, for some reason I was really attracted to that "4" on the back of the car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . Love it. It reminds me that I've always wanted a 4 wheel drive car, but didn't REALLY want to any of the offerings I'd seen from Audi.
It's all good. I was driving home tonight and I hear a loud "beep". I look over and see 2 guys in a perfect Arena Red 96 C4S. They lean over and ask me what year I have, and I tell them it's a 96. They smiled and said "same thing". Believe it or not, this is the first 96-98 C4S I've seen in this area (Rockville MD) since I got my car 5 months ago! They really are quite rare here, unlike California or Florida.
Steve
05-21-2003, 02:07 AM
#18
Track Day
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll weigh in here with my opinion, for what it's worth. I made this very same decision late last year and went for the C4S. I now consider this the ultimate Porsche model (IMHO).
I had a '93 previously, a true European 964 model (I was living in the Netherlands then), and loved the RWD action. Nothing like taking a tight turn onto the Autobahn (in nearby Germany) at high speed in a slow, controlled slide. So I was reluctant to switch over to the tight "on rails" feel of an AWD model. How wrong I was. The C4S packs in the additional traction for the real-life thunderstorm on a rough road PLUS all the fun I ever had with a 964 RWD. I've driven the C2 and the C2S -- there's not a perceptible speed difference and the factory reports back this up. Plus, like Fred says, RED BRAKES -- hard to argue with that! If God made a car, it would be the 911 C4S...'nuff said...
:>
Cheers,
hal
1997 911 C4S (Black/Black)
....and lovin' it....
I had a '93 previously, a true European 964 model (I was living in the Netherlands then), and loved the RWD action. Nothing like taking a tight turn onto the Autobahn (in nearby Germany) at high speed in a slow, controlled slide. So I was reluctant to switch over to the tight "on rails" feel of an AWD model. How wrong I was. The C4S packs in the additional traction for the real-life thunderstorm on a rough road PLUS all the fun I ever had with a 964 RWD. I've driven the C2 and the C2S -- there's not a perceptible speed difference and the factory reports back this up. Plus, like Fred says, RED BRAKES -- hard to argue with that! If God made a car, it would be the 911 C4S...'nuff said...
:>
Cheers,
hal
1997 911 C4S (Black/Black)
....and lovin' it....
05-21-2003, 04:01 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Hi,
Not sure about in the US however......
From my knowledge the C4S and the C2S are BOTH slower than their non wide bodied counterparts!
If you are comparing the C2S vs C4S from a "drivers car" point of view then there are plenty of written references to the C2S being perhaps the heaviest and least involving 993 rides. Just check all the european/british literature. A heavier body, more drag and a wider track have compiled to make a less nible car. The C4S has turbo running gear and 4WD. This helps it retail more or less the characteristics of the C4 doner car....
For my money I would buy a C2 and put the money into things that make your car more enjoyavle for you. You never get the money back on a carbon shifter or RSR exhausts, sports tips etc, but they sure as hell feel/sound nice and with a good C2 you will have a timeless classic coupe with great dynamic performance.
Frankly the way I see it the best NA 993's are : 993 RS, 993 C4/C2 and then 993 C4S followed by 993 C2S.
Thats the way I see it. Thats my 0.2c worth.
Macca the Kiwi
New owner of Leslies 993 RS
+ 1994 993 C2 (many mods)
+ Audi/Porsche RS2 Avant (daily grinder)
Not sure about in the US however......
From my knowledge the C4S and the C2S are BOTH slower than their non wide bodied counterparts!
If you are comparing the C2S vs C4S from a "drivers car" point of view then there are plenty of written references to the C2S being perhaps the heaviest and least involving 993 rides. Just check all the european/british literature. A heavier body, more drag and a wider track have compiled to make a less nible car. The C4S has turbo running gear and 4WD. This helps it retail more or less the characteristics of the C4 doner car....
For my money I would buy a C2 and put the money into things that make your car more enjoyavle for you. You never get the money back on a carbon shifter or RSR exhausts, sports tips etc, but they sure as hell feel/sound nice and with a good C2 you will have a timeless classic coupe with great dynamic performance.
Frankly the way I see it the best NA 993's are : 993 RS, 993 C4/C2 and then 993 C4S followed by 993 C2S.
Thats the way I see it. Thats my 0.2c worth.
Macca the Kiwi
New owner of Leslies 993 RS
+ 1994 993 C2 (many mods)
+ Audi/Porsche RS2 Avant (daily grinder)
05-21-2003, 09:10 AM
#22
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
C2S.
I don't know about the value, depriciation etc. & couldn't care less.
I'd buy the car for me, not for the next owner (if there ever would be one).
I'd get the C2S because I like two wheel drive better that four wheel drive. You should all know why.
I don't know about the value, depriciation etc. & couldn't care less.
I'd buy the car for me, not for the next owner (if there ever would be one).
I'd get the C2S because I like two wheel drive better that four wheel drive. You should all know why.
05-21-2003, 09:20 AM
#23
Sigh....blondes vs. brunettes vs. redheads? Big Mac vs. 1/4 Pounder? Bud vs. Michelob vs. imported beer? Aspirin vs. Tylenol? Coke vs. Pepsi? Life if full of choices and to each his own...
Which one is best? Who cares!!!The only opinion that matters is yours...just drive it!!!
Which one is best? Who cares!!!The only opinion that matters is yours...just drive it!!!
05-21-2003, 09:52 AM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Faster.....smaster
There is little if any difference between C2, C2S, C4, and C4S. Although the C2S was not listed at the time the attached archive page from Porsche's website tells the story:
C2 - 0-60 mph: 5.3 sec, top speed 171 mph
C4 - 0-60 mph: 5.2 sec, top speed 171 mph
C4S - 0-60 mph: 5.2 sec, top speed 168 mph
I don't think there is person out there that will actually reach these numbers.
At the end of the day, buy what you want. The dry performance is pretty much the same.
<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/19970607123132/www.porsche.com/DrM.html" target="_blank">Porsche December 1997</a>
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
There is little if any difference between C2, C2S, C4, and C4S. Although the C2S was not listed at the time the attached archive page from Porsche's website tells the story:
C2 - 0-60 mph: 5.3 sec, top speed 171 mph
C4 - 0-60 mph: 5.2 sec, top speed 171 mph
C4S - 0-60 mph: 5.2 sec, top speed 168 mph
I don't think there is person out there that will actually reach these numbers.
At the end of the day, buy what you want. The dry performance is pretty much the same.
<a href="http://web.archive.org/web/19970607123132/www.porsche.com/DrM.html" target="_blank">Porsche December 1997</a>
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
05-21-2003, 12:06 PM
#25
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks all for your comments. It is interesting to note the differences in viewpoint, depending on whether you would be the buyer or seller in the transaction.
To cut to the chase, for the SAME price and all else equal, I'd buy the C4S. The C2S is overpriced if you are pricing it the same as a C4S and pricing it at a premium, well, that's just plain silly.
But to take the debate a step further, I am amazed by the premium the C2S goes for over the narrow body C2. Clearly aesthetics are considerably more important to many P-Car owners than they would otherwise admit!
But in the end, none of us should care less what others do with their money. I was simply polling knowledgeable Porschephiles to see whether or not my former co-worker was suffering from delusions of C2S grandeur, given what I believe is an outrageous asking price.
Let's face it though, all 993s are great cars.
To cut to the chase, for the SAME price and all else equal, I'd buy the C4S. The C2S is overpriced if you are pricing it the same as a C4S and pricing it at a premium, well, that's just plain silly.
But to take the debate a step further, I am amazed by the premium the C2S goes for over the narrow body C2. Clearly aesthetics are considerably more important to many P-Car owners than they would otherwise admit!
But in the end, none of us should care less what others do with their money. I was simply polling knowledgeable Porschephiles to see whether or not my former co-worker was suffering from delusions of C2S grandeur, given what I believe is an outrageous asking price.
Let's face it though, all 993s are great cars.
05-21-2003, 01:10 PM
#26
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You might be amazed by the premium but there is no shortgage of people with checkbook in hand that are willing to pay more for the widebody. Likewise, as you can see from this post and others on Rennlist, there is no shortgage of people that consider the C2S to be the ultimate NA Porsche.
It is all about what the individual prefers...no choice (in this area anyways) is wrong...even if you or I would choose differently.
It is all about what the individual prefers...no choice (in this area anyways) is wrong...even if you or I would choose differently.
05-21-2003, 01:36 PM
#28
Nordschleife Master
Ok, I have a confession. I have a widebody (TT), but when viewing a narrowbody, I'm never quite sure which it is. I was driving behind Shant (a Rennlister)when we were on our way to Willow Springs. He has a C2 in Speed Yellow with a TT tail. Honestly, his car looked like a wide body.
Am I the only one who doesn't think there is that much of a visual difference? And what is the actual difference anyway? Are the front fenders a little different as well? How much?
Am I the only one who doesn't think there is that much of a visual difference? And what is the actual difference anyway? Are the front fenders a little different as well? How much?
05-21-2003, 05:12 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
The difference is little more than an inch.
Its really in the "eye of the beholder". For me the 'narrow' hips of the C2 are still appear wider than any other porsche 911 from previous generations and are proportioned perfectly in relation to the front arches. I believe the designer (LH) got the proportions perfect in the narrow body car.
The lack of a fixed tail ensures the car endures the same sweeping lines as it 1967 borebearer. It just seems "right". The wider cars do not embrace the original design philosophy in my mind. Infact I dont even like the wind on my RS as it spoils the "flow" of the design.
Everyone has a different perspective. However for someone who prefers the C2 design the extra bonus is the handling and the price. The narrow car has less drag for high speed and the car is more nimble and weighs less. I am off course comparing a C2/4 varioram car with their equivalent widebodied models.
In our market and the UK the C2S got a bad rep because of its weight. Without 4WD or the benefit of a beefed up transmission all you are geting is weight and wider track. There were quite a few euro articles that claimed the car was more for show than go.....
Just thought Id put a fresh persepctive out there. Its pointless trying to get persepctive if everyone is either a C2S convert or a C4S convert on this forum....
Macca the Kiwi
1995 993 RS
1994 993 C2
1995 Audi RS2 Avant
Its really in the "eye of the beholder". For me the 'narrow' hips of the C2 are still appear wider than any other porsche 911 from previous generations and are proportioned perfectly in relation to the front arches. I believe the designer (LH) got the proportions perfect in the narrow body car.
The lack of a fixed tail ensures the car endures the same sweeping lines as it 1967 borebearer. It just seems "right". The wider cars do not embrace the original design philosophy in my mind. Infact I dont even like the wind on my RS as it spoils the "flow" of the design.
Everyone has a different perspective. However for someone who prefers the C2 design the extra bonus is the handling and the price. The narrow car has less drag for high speed and the car is more nimble and weighs less. I am off course comparing a C2/4 varioram car with their equivalent widebodied models.
In our market and the UK the C2S got a bad rep because of its weight. Without 4WD or the benefit of a beefed up transmission all you are geting is weight and wider track. There were quite a few euro articles that claimed the car was more for show than go.....
Just thought Id put a fresh persepctive out there. Its pointless trying to get persepctive if everyone is either a C2S convert or a C4S convert on this forum....
Macca the Kiwi
1995 993 RS
1994 993 C2
1995 Audi RS2 Avant
05-21-2003, 07:20 PM
#30
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Personal preference. I drove both and bought the C4S. It felt more sure-footed than the C2S. Plus I like the big reds and correct me if I am wrong but didn't the C4S come with some Turbo suspension pieces as opposed to just the body on the C2S?