HID GROUP BUY
02-27-2003, 07:04 PM
#46
Racer
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OK, been getting some questions about the picture on Liteswap.com's website regarding the 993 pictured.
The car has 4500K standard HID kits in both locations. Typically for a foglight application, one would need to go with the 6000K H3 Foglight bulb. The Porsche I am told has enough room that a standard 35W H3 HID bulb will fit.
<img src="http://miami.keystreams.com/~hidforum/forum/images/liteswap/993/ballast.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://miami.keystreams.com/~hidforum/forum/images/liteswap/993/wires.jpg" alt=" - " />
BUT, from the pictures sent to me, it looks like by using the standard 35W bulb, it will require some splicing. I don't know why this owner decided to do so, but I am finding out and will report back. Splicing may not be necessary.:
<img src="http://miami.keystreams.com/~hidforum/forum/images/liteswap/993/interface.jpg" alt=" - " />
The car has 4500K standard HID kits in both locations. Typically for a foglight application, one would need to go with the 6000K H3 Foglight bulb. The Porsche I am told has enough room that a standard 35W H3 HID bulb will fit.
<img src="http://miami.keystreams.com/~hidforum/forum/images/liteswap/993/ballast.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://miami.keystreams.com/~hidforum/forum/images/liteswap/993/wires.jpg" alt=" - " />
BUT, from the pictures sent to me, it looks like by using the standard 35W bulb, it will require some splicing. I don't know why this owner decided to do so, but I am finding out and will report back. Splicing may not be necessary.:
<img src="http://miami.keystreams.com/~hidforum/forum/images/liteswap/993/interface.jpg" alt=" - " />
02-27-2003, 10:10 PM
#48
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Eric
I appreciate your taking the time & interest to try to answer my questions. As an aside, I assume you misread someone's post since I saw none that accused anyone of a scam. I did see a few (including mine) that IMO legitimately asked about the group buy financial arrangements and/or about specifics of installation.
I take it from your answers that you are not familiar w/the 993 headlights which, like other late model Porsches, have a rather unique design. Each headlight is a discrete unit which slides into its mount in the fender & makes all needed electrical connections via a multi-pin connector built into the headlight, mating to a fixed connector inside the fender. There are no wires to the headlight itself. Thus it is removed as a unit without having to disconnect anything.
OEM Litronics mounts the igniter inside the access door to the headlight assembly, wired to the multi-pin connector. The ballasts are wired into the car's harness & mounted on each trunk/fender wall. The ballast output is also to the harness wires leading to the fender side of the multi-pin connector. Very clean install, but requires a 2 piece ballast/igniter.
If I were to install your kit, that's how I would do it IF the igniter will fit in the headlight & there would be no arcing problem at the connector. Those are two important questions, because IF the igniter will fit inside the headlight, then there is an advantage to a 2 piece kit in a 993 install, although the installation will not be plug & play. It will be much more involved.
If it won't fit or arcing is a problem, you're left w/the same install as the 1 piece kits (except w/2 boxes to deal with): access holes into the headlight assemblies, the ballasts wired outside the headlights & finding a place to put them in the fenders. BTW, there is limited room inside the fenders esp on the (LHD) driver's side. A permanent mount of the ballast in the fender would require a suitable way to disconnect it from the headlight assembly for removal.
I hope this is helpful in clarifying the basis of my questions.
BTW, my question about Sylvania concerned its use of a 1 piece ballast/igniter in regard to your inference that 2 pieces are better. I assume Sylvania in actually designing & manufacturing its HID systems wouldn't choose to use inferior products or a less than optimal design. I also assume its applications are restricted by the need to only use DOT approved headlights. AFAIK, that's a requirement not met by any of the aftermarket HID kits - hence the off road use only warnings.
I appreciate your taking the time & interest to try to answer my questions. As an aside, I assume you misread someone's post since I saw none that accused anyone of a scam. I did see a few (including mine) that IMO legitimately asked about the group buy financial arrangements and/or about specifics of installation.
I take it from your answers that you are not familiar w/the 993 headlights which, like other late model Porsches, have a rather unique design. Each headlight is a discrete unit which slides into its mount in the fender & makes all needed electrical connections via a multi-pin connector built into the headlight, mating to a fixed connector inside the fender. There are no wires to the headlight itself. Thus it is removed as a unit without having to disconnect anything.
OEM Litronics mounts the igniter inside the access door to the headlight assembly, wired to the multi-pin connector. The ballasts are wired into the car's harness & mounted on each trunk/fender wall. The ballast output is also to the harness wires leading to the fender side of the multi-pin connector. Very clean install, but requires a 2 piece ballast/igniter.
If I were to install your kit, that's how I would do it IF the igniter will fit in the headlight & there would be no arcing problem at the connector. Those are two important questions, because IF the igniter will fit inside the headlight, then there is an advantage to a 2 piece kit in a 993 install, although the installation will not be plug & play. It will be much more involved.
If it won't fit or arcing is a problem, you're left w/the same install as the 1 piece kits (except w/2 boxes to deal with): access holes into the headlight assemblies, the ballasts wired outside the headlights & finding a place to put them in the fenders. BTW, there is limited room inside the fenders esp on the (LHD) driver's side. A permanent mount of the ballast in the fender would require a suitable way to disconnect it from the headlight assembly for removal.
I hope this is helpful in clarifying the basis of my questions.
BTW, my question about Sylvania concerned its use of a 1 piece ballast/igniter in regard to your inference that 2 pieces are better. I assume Sylvania in actually designing & manufacturing its HID systems wouldn't choose to use inferior products or a less than optimal design. I also assume its applications are restricted by the need to only use DOT approved headlights. AFAIK, that's a requirement not met by any of the aftermarket HID kits - hence the off road use only warnings.
02-28-2003, 12:34 AM
#49
Racer
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Hi Mike, if it takes a H1 bulb, it should fit.
Dan, I was not aware that that was how the 993's headlamps were setup. As soon as Chris gets his kit tomorrow, I hope to be in direct contact with him so that we can detail the installation as much as possible.
As far as Sylvania is concerned, the reason why they are DOT approved is because it is a kit with the entire housing which has gone through the DOT process. Regarding performance, I am sure their kits meet a certain standard. I have not seen the kits in person, but perhaps their ballasts have ways around the arcing issue. But I know from experience of others that Philips ballasts DO sometimes exhibit this arcing issue.
Dan, I was not aware that that was how the 993's headlamps were setup. As soon as Chris gets his kit tomorrow, I hope to be in direct contact with him so that we can detail the installation as much as possible.
As far as Sylvania is concerned, the reason why they are DOT approved is because it is a kit with the entire housing which has gone through the DOT process. Regarding performance, I am sure their kits meet a certain standard. I have not seen the kits in person, but perhaps their ballasts have ways around the arcing issue. But I know from experience of others that Philips ballasts DO sometimes exhibit this arcing issue.
02-28-2003, 06:40 AM
#50
Burning Brakes
I have been reading the debate on HID with interest from this side of the pond. Next week I am having a set of TARGET/BELLOF professionally fitted to my '95 993, incorporating both high and low beam. The suppliers website (www.ca-automotive.co.uk) indicates that single beam H4 kits are not road legal in the UK? They also suggest a specialist website for HID,
<a href="http://www.h-i-d.co.uk." target="_blank">www.h-i-d.co.uk.</a>
Seems that the whole thing is a bit of a specialist area for techy anoraks, all I want is improved lights - my Ford Focus (fitted with Zonon) is heaps better than the current 993 install.
<a href="http://www.h-i-d.co.uk." target="_blank">www.h-i-d.co.uk.</a>
Seems that the whole thing is a bit of a specialist area for techy anoraks, all I want is improved lights - my Ford Focus (fitted with Zonon) is heaps better than the current 993 install.
02-28-2003, 01:56 PM
#51
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by liteswap:
<strong>Autolamps is one of the better vendors out there, but they do not mold the bases of their bulbs. They machine them, then glue an adapter on.
The only other company I know of that remolds the bases is XenonDepot.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Just for clarification, I don't think this is the case. I can ask them to be sure, but the bases on my bulbs were definitely not a machined part, they were moulded.
I guess it depends upon what you mean by moulding (i.e. glass envelope moulded into base, which they are not). The envelope is inserted into a plastic moulding. Take a look at my pics of their bulb on thier web site if you want to see for yourself.
Dan, lots of good questions there. keep up the good work ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Cheers,
John.
<strong>Autolamps is one of the better vendors out there, but they do not mold the bases of their bulbs. They machine them, then glue an adapter on.
The only other company I know of that remolds the bases is XenonDepot.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Just for clarification, I don't think this is the case. I can ask them to be sure, but the bases on my bulbs were definitely not a machined part, they were moulded.
I guess it depends upon what you mean by moulding (i.e. glass envelope moulded into base, which they are not). The envelope is inserted into a plastic moulding. Take a look at my pics of their bulb on thier web site if you want to see for yourself.
Dan, lots of good questions there. keep up the good work ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Cheers,
John.
02-28-2003, 04:39 PM
#52
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by John W:
<strong>Dan, lots of good questions there. keep up the good work </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">John - so when can I pass the baton? Going over this stuff w/vendors having no familiarity w/our lighting system, but who casually describe a 993 HID conversion as "plug & play," (which of course it's not), is fatiguing.
<strong>Dan, lots of good questions there. keep up the good work </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">John - so when can I pass the baton? Going over this stuff w/vendors having no familiarity w/our lighting system, but who casually describe a 993 HID conversion as "plug & play," (which of course it's not), is fatiguing.
02-28-2003, 05:30 PM
#53
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Dan, I got further information. The owner of this 993 decided he wanted to cut the wires. I am being told by Catz tech that you can tap the housing directly without splicing.
As far as Bellof goes, Catz is a sister company of Bellof using the exact same components <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
As far as Bellof goes, Catz is a sister company of Bellof using the exact same components <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
02-28-2003, 05:58 PM
#54
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Yes, I am a bit concerned about what has been advertised here. The more I read about the vendors knowledge the less inclined I am to participate in a group purchase.
I guess time will tell...............
I guess time will tell...............
02-28-2003, 06:22 PM
#55
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Kary993
I agree. Earlier this week I was ready to order as I thought it would be a simple install, but I'm a little more hesitant now.
We'll have to see how the install goes.
I agree. Earlier this week I was ready to order as I thought it would be a simple install, but I'm a little more hesitant now.
We'll have to see how the install goes.
02-28-2003, 06:26 PM
#56
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kary
I wouldn't necessarily be put off by uninformed vendors, especially since none of them seem to be familiar w/the 993's system, although some should be learning from our collective experience. The products & pricing may indeed be very good. It just means going a little slower, asking more questions, & not blindly relying on perhaps unfounded sales pitches.
I wouldn't necessarily be put off by uninformed vendors, especially since none of them seem to be familiar w/the 993's system, although some should be learning from our collective experience. The products & pricing may indeed be very good. It just means going a little slower, asking more questions, & not blindly relying on perhaps unfounded sales pitches.
02-28-2003, 06:34 PM
#57
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by liteswap:
<strong>Dan, I got further information. The owner of this 993 decided he wanted to cut the wires. I am being told by Catz tech that you can tap the housing directly without splicing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Eric
Huh? I haven't a clue what that means. The owner of which 993? Cut what wires? Tap what housing? Are you/they referring to the headlights or the H3 foglights?
Let's see the hands of those who have a headache!
<strong>Dan, I got further information. The owner of this 993 decided he wanted to cut the wires. I am being told by Catz tech that you can tap the housing directly without splicing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Eric
Huh? I haven't a clue what that means. The owner of which 993? Cut what wires? Tap what housing? Are you/they referring to the headlights or the H3 foglights?
Let's see the hands of those who have a headache!
02-28-2003, 10:31 PM
#60
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96P993:
Please hang in there. I too am getting a headache from much of this thread's postured rhetoric. Other recent 993 forum posts seem to be going this same way. It is too bad for the majority of us.
FWIW, I am very appreciative of the time this DIY and group buy must be taking for you. I am committed to following through on our group purchase with a 4300K order if you give the kit a thumbs up.
For some of the rest of you on this thread:
Come on...What do some of you expect of these guys? How 'bout taking off your 993 forum superhero capes and let this thing play out with better respect for the contributed time one of our members and his vendor are putting in on this project. The work above and beyond 96P993 making a simple HID purchase from Eric is being done just for our spectator benefit prior to any commitment. Have any of us other than 96P993 put any money in yet ? No !
Reading back through this thread, who in their right mind would ever want to continue forward with a group buy with all of the junk thrown out here. Geez... Give 'em a brake ! If we keep this up, we can surely kiss off member contributions like group buys and DIY's
02 cents worth...
Please hang in there. I too am getting a headache from much of this thread's postured rhetoric. Other recent 993 forum posts seem to be going this same way. It is too bad for the majority of us.
FWIW, I am very appreciative of the time this DIY and group buy must be taking for you. I am committed to following through on our group purchase with a 4300K order if you give the kit a thumbs up.
For some of the rest of you on this thread:
Come on...What do some of you expect of these guys? How 'bout taking off your 993 forum superhero capes and let this thing play out with better respect for the contributed time one of our members and his vendor are putting in on this project. The work above and beyond 96P993 making a simple HID purchase from Eric is being done just for our spectator benefit prior to any commitment. Have any of us other than 96P993 put any money in yet ? No !
Reading back through this thread, who in their right mind would ever want to continue forward with a group buy with all of the junk thrown out here. Geez... Give 'em a brake ! If we keep this up, we can surely kiss off member contributions like group buys and DIY's
02 cents worth...