RSRRacer

I own an M3 and just experienced the well known M3 engine failure. Looks like BMS will be losing money on my car!

Except for straight line performance, the M3 is a joke on the track. Fun, yes, with the SMG, but unless it has been modifed it is lame.

Note - my student had an M3 with wide sticky tires and a bit of negative camber dialed in, and it was much more fun.....

Anyone want to sell me a 993TT??? Damn I should have bought this 6 months ago rather than the M3.

996FLT6

Sorry to hear that it has happen to you-sad shame it is-what is BMW doing with those cars and til now hasn't said nothing about what's the reason. I think they got to the point they maxed out on the power output(3.2L) and giving it a high rev limiter and frankly have to say it's pretty darn heavy-I just look at the seats(nice though) and they look twice as big as mine. Good choice in the 993TT-turbo is a killer. Regards and good luck. Mike

spinning disc

geez louise.

i thought the engine failures were done with and only happened to november build cars......what happened, exactly?

Anir

Chris,

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Unfortunately, the problems are not limited to 10/01 - 12/01 build cars.

As I understand it, the problem is related to inadequate design tolerances (actually too tight) on the connecting rod bearings. This leads to oil starvation issues with these bearings as the metal expands.

The stock M3 suspension is too soft, and the steering much too light. Also, SMG is not much fun and rather clunky at anything less than 8/10's.

We are selling the M3 back to the dealer tomorrow, and just bought a 2003 Range Rover today to replace it as the family ride and tow vehicle for a dedicated track car I hope to get next year. I know, I know - I finally gave in to the SUV disease, but the new Rover is amazing. How that car can handle and accelerate like that with a 5,700 lb curb weight is beyond me. The salesman took it over this 33 degree side angle course, and the car handled it without any problem. Rides like a Mercedes, and looks like a Bentley inside. I'm impressed.

H20NOO

My friend's 98 M3 just dropped a valve for no apparent reason and did substantial damage to the top end. The car has been well cared for and my friend is a very gentle driver (sp. real wuss behind the wheel). It's never seen a race track parking lot, let alone done any track days. He's been good with scheduled maintenance, oil changes, etc. To add insult to injury, it happened almost exactly 1 month past the expiration of the factory warranty.

To their credit, BMW offered to repair it for a very reasonable $500 and gave him a 2002 330CI loaner for 3 weeks. I think the service manager squeezed the $500 out of him (for "diagnosis")because BMW N.A. offered to repair it at no charge.

MC

mpm '95 C4

Wouldn't fret about buying an SUV Anir - at least you got the real deal, and not a poser. BTW sorry to read about your BMW woes, but I'm not sure which is worse - M3 blowing up, or Chris Bangel designing cars...

DC from Cape Cod

Roughly 80% of the documented E46 M3 engine failures are in cars produced between 10/01 and 12/01.

The problem is inadequate lubrication to one of more crankshaft bearings.

BMW is aware of the problem and is now replacing the engines under warranty with no hassle to the owners (as they should).

There have only been a few failures outside of this timeframe.

The E46M3 is not a sports car...but it is a high-performance sports coupe. I prefer my 993 to my E46 M3 but the M3 can fit the whole family, clients, luggage, etc. while still offering incredible on-road performance.

Ideally, I would have the 993 and a BMW X5....but the E46 M3 is 95% of the performance for 50% of the cost of both those cars (combined).

Anir

DC,

I run across reports of new failures almost every day, which is pretty spooky in a car with a relatively low production volume such as this. Surely, there must be additional people with failures who do not report them on the internet.

Also, I have read about failures on cars produced long before 10/01, and in 2002 as well. Interestingly, the cars often fail around 7,000 - 10,000 miles. I feel that we may see more failures as cars accumulate a bit more mileage.

BTW, I agree with you about BMWNA handling the repair, at least in our case, in a very professional and expedient manner. It's just that I wonder if they have taken this engine design beyond its technical capabilities. If you'll remember, they claimed that the engine had been developed to its max on the E36 M3.

DC from Cape Cod

Yep, there were some failures earlier than 10/01 productions....that is why BMW tried (and only made it worse) to correct the problem sometime in early 10/01.

There have only been 5 failures report after 12/01 production and those could be attributed to leftover parts/engines that were made earlier but not installed until later. It is interesting to note that 4 out of those 5 failures were NOT in the USA....whereas 90%+ of the earlier failures had been.

Data is here...

<a href="http://members.roadfly.com/jason/excel.htm" target="_blank">http://members.roadfly.com/jason/excel.htm</a>

Hopefully the problem has been solved 8+ months ago. In the worst case scenario, the odds are very much against a failure and even then BMW will cover it without a hassle (although that wasn't always the case early on).

They might very well have maxed out this engine...it could certainly handle a bit more torque and this is no substitute for displacement.

As much as I like this car, and I really am very fond of it, it is not a long-term keeper...merely a 36 month diversion that I lease for work. The 993 is still the finest automobile God ever made.

krichard

DC - To assume that Jason's sight is representative of all failures is putting a lot of faith that every M3 owner is an internet junkie and posts on roadfly. I would guess that the actual failures are two to three times what he has reported and probably contain production months that fall outside the 10-01 - 12-01 months. Don't get me wrong I do think that there is signifcant data to support a trend for those months, I just can't believe that the problem is "solved". If I was still driving my 02 M3 then I would also be defensive when the subject was brought up and try to convince myself that the problem is solved but the reality is that all e46 M3s are at risk. That's why I dumped mine.

Tito

Being a petrol head I read these posts with interest.

As much as the E46M3 is praised for its dynamic ablilty/cost/4 seating ablity; I would not buy one now until the engine failure issue is definately put to rest.

To be frank I don't think it will be, unless there is a major engine redesign / new engine (? roll on the V8).

If I were in the market for this type of package I would stay well away from this car. There is little that any sales person could do to change this view. Besides there are several other options to choose from.

Its a shame, I think personally that BMW just stretched this engine too much, I guess they at least deserve credit for trying to push limits and also for replacing engines under warranty.

Good luck.
Tito

DC from Cape Cod

Kerry,

I am not assuming the problem is fixed. I am merely looking at the data and drawing a conclusion based on it.

Jason's site does not need to contain all the actual failures (nor does it) in order for the RATIOS to be accurate. I am making the assumption that as his data contains 80 failures and 80% of those are in the 10/01 - 12/01 timeframe then that was a problem area.

Personally, I think the actual number of failures is probably more like 5 times higher...if not more. Six months ago, we were hearing a LOT of reports of failures within the "bad" timeframe. Now, if the problem was still as bad, we would be hearing about March, April, May, June, etc. failures......but we haven't.

Why not?

I leased the car, I didn't buy it, I didn't personally design the engine nor do I own the company. But the data doesn't lie and 80 failures are enough to establish a trend.

If it dies, I know it will be covered. After 36 months, no matter what the engine does, I will be driving a new toy (which will have it's own problems, no doubt). Worst-case scenario is a 1 in 500 (?) chance of being without the car for 10 days while it gets a transplant...I am willing to take that risk in order to have fun while driving a car for work.

Jim Morton

First off. Sorry to all you folks who have lost M3 engines ! I would hope that despite repairing the car for free, some sort of rebate / something to offset the loss in long term value of your car is also provided.

Although this is an interesting thread so far, I do not see how this relates to 993's unless we take an interesting point made above about accepting a waranty term life cycle for expensive vehicles and expand on it wrt the 993's.

If we should not care about BMW M3 engines failing later in the car's life because we merely lease it for three years, then should we all just accept and not care if our 993 engines fail any time soon...I don't think so. How "not in my back yard" can one get ! I guess when BMW's resale value tanks, you guys will still buy. Sounds like the 1980's Jaguars...

IMHO, BMW has definately established a declining success story with their pewerplants and other aspects of the newer engineered cars since 1995/96 and the corp. reorg. The E39 M5 over the E28 and E34 as another example of a story similar to the E46 M3. BMW needs another Paul Roche !

Personally, I thought we are suppose to expect more than twice the drive train life from marques such as BMW's Merc's and other high end sedans. Lately I see BMW producing cars to niche markets dominated by lease purchases. Resale and long term value is no longer on their mind. I just cannot see owning a current model BMW when it is 5+ years old. Too expensive off warranty !

I always used to drive a 3-5 year old BMW as a commuter. I just cannot rely on one any more for daily usage. For those of you who may want to flame and might think I may not have know about or have BMW experience, I have owned 14 BMW's over the last 20 years, inlcuding most all of the "M" varients. A lot has changed with BMW, and not for the better !

Whew...I need to sit back down on my soap box !

02 cents worth.

Jim Morton
'95 C2
'72 "S" targa
'74 BMW 2002tii !
<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

spinning disc

if there is a coherent theme to this thread: isn't it the difference between the 993 porsche philosophy and the post-993/new BMW philosophy?

i.e. the 993 appears to be a double -edged sword: the last car that porsche tended to overengineer, but that same philsophy almost bankrupted 'em.

now the companies (both) are more streamlined, but who knows about the effect of lowest cost bidder on the autos they build.

Anir

[quote]Originally posted by blackdawg:
<strong>if there is a coherent theme to this thread: isn't it the difference between the 993 porsche philosophy and the post-993/new BMW philosophy?

i.e. the 993 appears to be a double -edged sword: the last car that porsche tended to overengineer, but that same philsophy almost bankrupted 'em.

now the companies (both) are more streamlined, but who knows about the effect of lowest cost bidder on the autos they build.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Coky,

You may have hit the nail on the head. I have experienced no regrets about my 993 purchase, but would definitely pass on the 2000 MB S500 and 2002 M3 if I knew then what I know now. In these newer German cars, the cost-saving measures and underdeveloped engineering ideas are not hard to spot.

Interestingly, Autocar ran an editorial this week entitled "German cars ain't necessarily what they seem to be". In the piece, the author - Wolfgang Konig - asks, "Do German cars really deserve the image of dependability, robustness, and quality that so many of us thrust on them?"

He goes on to cite a recent survey which found that 28% of Mercedes owners and 17% of BMW owners currently experience problems on day one when taking possession of new cars. Not surprisingly, many of these failures relate to electrical systems, such as DSC and iDrive. However, other components are not immune, including the hydraulic braking system (SBC) on the MB and the SL's hard-top convertible roof.

I suspect that the decreased dependability of German cars is due to several causes, including attempts at costs savings (e.g. inferior interior trim materials and switches), increasingly tricky high-tech "driver's aids", and the perceived need to get products to market quickly. In medicine, I often see manufacturers of laser technology or gimmicks such as microdermabrasion try to bring their gadgets to market before they have been thoroughly investigated.

Ironically, many of the gizmos currently finding their way into high-end cars are really unneeded. Who wants a Heads-Up-Display in a Caddy (well, who wants a Caddy for that matter?), or iDrive, or ...

One of the reasons that we bought the 2003 Range Rover was that its development reminded me of the traditional Porsche approach to excellence at any cost. The new Range Rover was the pet project of a hard-headed perfectionist named Wolfgang Reitzle, who seems to have lost his job at BMW because he spent too much money ($1.4 billion) on the development of this car. Hopefully, his labour of love and fanatic demand for excellence will translate into a wonderful car. It's certainly an impressive machine on first acquaintance. Time will tell with respect to reliability.