How do I value a 993 that...
12-06-2018, 10:08 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by nodnarb204
With 3 accidents, I wouldnt touch north of 42,500 and that is with the assumption of a clean PPI. All the recent work done - thats incrementally nice but that is also cost of ownership of 993. If you buy, you will have hard time selling it ever. That needs to be factored in.
12-07-2018, 10:50 AM
#47
Three Wheelin'
I specifically want a car that WON'T hold my family...my 993 drives are my alone time. I can't be dealing with "your going too fast, I can't get cell signal, the sunroof is making me cold...it's too loud"...any of that stuff.
12-07-2018, 11:46 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
The Carfax thing is only an "issue" if you want it to be. I think Rennlist provides a skewed view of the 993 universe. People on this site are fanatic about their cars, and many of the posters here have those pristine, unblemished cars... but that's a very small sample of the approx 30k 993s that were sold in the US. Most 993 owners are not on Rennlist, and most cars get a ding or two in 20 years of life.
The repairs were 10 years and 2 owners ago. If you like the car, and the price is reasonable, and you want to buy it, then buy it. The $29k in mechanical work has taken care of all the major items - resealed engine, new suspension, new clutch, working AC, new sunroof cables. Get that scratch repainted and new tires and you'll have a quality driver 993 in which to pack your family. Your two-year-old will be happy in the back seat for the next 6 or 7 years or more. My 7-year-old has loved riding in the "Porsche-car!" ever since I started bringing her to daycare in it when she was 2.
Personally, I'd prefer to have a refreshed, relatively mechanical 20-year-old 993 than a 10-year-old 997 that may have all sorts of mechanical, electrical, and computer-related repairs and updates coming up in the next 10 years.
The repairs were 10 years and 2 owners ago. If you like the car, and the price is reasonable, and you want to buy it, then buy it. The $29k in mechanical work has taken care of all the major items - resealed engine, new suspension, new clutch, working AC, new sunroof cables. Get that scratch repainted and new tires and you'll have a quality driver 993 in which to pack your family. Your two-year-old will be happy in the back seat for the next 6 or 7 years or more. My 7-year-old has loved riding in the "Porsche-car!" ever since I started bringing her to daycare in it when she was 2.
Personally, I'd prefer to have a refreshed, relatively mechanical 20-year-old 993 than a 10-year-old 997 that may have all sorts of mechanical, electrical, and computer-related repairs and updates coming up in the next 10 years.
These are really fun, visceral cars to drive- but they're not that fast and there are some quirks with them. They are however, one of the best looking 911's ever made- especially wide bodies ( no bias here )
12-07-2018, 12:18 PM
#49
With 3 accidents, I wouldnt touch north of 42,500 and that is with the assumption of a clean PPI. All the recent work done - thats incrementally nice but that is also cost of ownership of 993. If you buy, you will have hard time selling it ever. That needs to be factored in.
I agree with 993c4 Toronto. It's not a matter of a car being hard or impossible to sell, it's a matter of pricing correctly. If you buy the car at a discount to non-accident cars now, expect to sell it at a discount to non-accident cars when you sell it. If the current seller is not willing to sell at a discount now, then that's his problem and he'll be stuck with the car until he prices correctly. Somebody's going to buy this car and be happy with their decision. If it's the OP, cool, if the OP decides to buy a different 993 or a 997, that's cool too. I'll be among the first to congratulate him on his purchase. They're all great cars.
12-07-2018, 12:34 PM
#51
My 993 is a driver, high miles, lots of recent work from previous owner(s), modded and tremendous fun. I can’t offer any insight on the specific car you are looking at, but that’s exactly what I wanted and to me condition is more important then the Carfax. I agree with Will about the amazing resources here and also the possibly slightly skewed Rennlist take on resale for 993’s with history. My opinion is that if you buy the car well, you should be able to sell it for a proportional adjustment to the value. Selling may take a bit longer as someone above mentioned.
One thing I don’t believe anyone has addressed is safety. The 997.x will have many safety advantages over 993, with LATCH possibly being foremost since you have a two year old. That said, my two year old loves the 993, and as I essentially daily drive it three seasons he’s in it a lot. I’ve found his fanatical enthusiasm to be infectious and both my wife and our teenage daughter are very willing to ride in it since it makes him so happy.
I’m considering replacing my “real” four season car with a 996TT or 997.2 in the next couple years, but my 993 isn’t going anywhere. If you think you might want an aircooled I think now might be the time, it’ll be easier to trade up (down?) to a 997 in a few years then to step back in time to a 993.
One thing I don’t believe anyone has addressed is safety. The 997.x will have many safety advantages over 993, with LATCH possibly being foremost since you have a two year old. That said, my two year old loves the 993, and as I essentially daily drive it three seasons he’s in it a lot. I’ve found his fanatical enthusiasm to be infectious and both my wife and our teenage daughter are very willing to ride in it since it makes him so happy.
I’m considering replacing my “real” four season car with a 996TT or 997.2 in the next couple years, but my 993 isn’t going anywhere. If you think you might want an aircooled I think now might be the time, it’ll be easier to trade up (down?) to a 997 in a few years then to step back in time to a 993.
12-07-2018, 04:00 PM
#52
I'm in the Raleigh area if you're ever this way and want to meet up and drive my C2
12-07-2018, 09:12 PM
#53
12-07-2018, 09:35 PM
#54
Advanced
Thread Starter
WOW! Folks, you are truly awesome! Thank you for continued feedback. I'm mulling the choices.
I was messaging the owner of the TX car and by the time I was able to read his response that afternoon, he already had two people schedule PPIs on it. Geez. Even though I have cash in hand and I'm ready for the right car, I simply can't make a decision on a car that fast! Especially when it's 1,000+ miles away and I can't physically see, touch, drive...
Things didn't work for me to go see this car today. So, I'll continue talking to the owner and see if something comes of it. I'll keep you updated.
On another note, I went to see/drive a standard 997.2 Carrera today, just to compare to the 997.2 C2S. This one is barebones. So, probably as close as you could get to raw driving experience in a late model 911. Got to the dealership and the car was at the owner's house... Did have a fun discussion with the owner though!
Also, just to clarify: This car is for me. I'm buying it for my driving enjoyment and as a reward to myself for building a business and selling it. I just don't want to exclude my CFO and son.
Allen, I get it. That's hilarious but, so true.
WRXDriver, I'm hoping my son picks up the passion. I believe everyone should have a goal/goals. I wonder how different the world would be if as many folks weren't as passionate about working towards owning a Porsche... (I think I just created their next ad campaign!)
I was messaging the owner of the TX car and by the time I was able to read his response that afternoon, he already had two people schedule PPIs on it. Geez. Even though I have cash in hand and I'm ready for the right car, I simply can't make a decision on a car that fast! Especially when it's 1,000+ miles away and I can't physically see, touch, drive...
Things didn't work for me to go see this car today. So, I'll continue talking to the owner and see if something comes of it. I'll keep you updated.
On another note, I went to see/drive a standard 997.2 Carrera today, just to compare to the 997.2 C2S. This one is barebones. So, probably as close as you could get to raw driving experience in a late model 911. Got to the dealership and the car was at the owner's house... Did have a fun discussion with the owner though!
Also, just to clarify: This car is for me. I'm buying it for my driving enjoyment and as a reward to myself for building a business and selling it. I just don't want to exclude my CFO and son.
Allen, I get it. That's hilarious but, so true.
WRXDriver, I'm hoping my son picks up the passion. I believe everyone should have a goal/goals. I wonder how different the world would be if as many folks weren't as passionate about working towards owning a Porsche... (I think I just created their next ad campaign!)
12-07-2018, 11:06 PM
#55
Could have been serious, or not so bad. Regardless, if the shop was good, the frame could be very straight. 15 years ago a teenager rear ended my one year old C-5. Took it to a very well respected Corvette shop (Mid Cities Corvettes in Euless TX) and my worst fear came true: it needed frame work. The shop owner told me not to worry. Car came out as good the day drove it off the lot. Had it 12 more years and put another 120K on the odometer. My only regret with that car was I didn’t drive it more and trade it with more miles!
12-08-2018, 10:05 AM
#56
Yes it would. I started keeping track of sale prices in 2016 when shopping for my own 993. Ask prices were all over the place (and still are), so it was hard to tell good deals from bad ones. I started out researching just widebodies because that's what I was looking for (and ended up buying), but I kept the project going and expanded it to include charts for narrowbodies, cabs, tips and few turbos because there seemed to be a real need. As time goes on, the data base should reveal long-term price trends. In the meantime, I use the charts as a quick sanity check. You never know when a great deal will pop up.
12-08-2018, 11:34 AM
#57
Yes it would. I started keeping track of sale prices in 2016 when shopping for my own 993. Ask prices were all over the place (and still are), so it was hard to tell good deals from bad ones. I started out researching just widebodies because that's what I was looking for (and ended up buying), but I kept the project going and expanded it to include charts for narrowbodies, cabs, tips and few turbos because there seemed to be a real need. As time goes on, the data base should reveal long-term price trends. In the meantime, I use the charts as a quick sanity check. You never know when a great deal will pop up.
I have found a couple of other threads on the site (below) that will help shed light here in more data points and different perspectives. I would love to see what you have assembled, if you care to share.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-analysis.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-analysis.html
12-09-2018, 01:16 AM
#58
There's been LOTS of great advice, input and comments on this thread. As someone who spent ~18 mos. searching for a 993, one of my observations, after driving about eight of them, of all different levels of miles and care, is that EVERY SINGLE ONE of them drove differently. After that I pretty much concluded that I couldn’t buy one without driving it first…or having someone who REALLY knows 993s drive it for me.
Jay’s selling-price chart is a great tool—it’s real information of selling prices, not asks, and now has enough data points to be meaningful.
As for me, based upon my own research, I wouldn’t touch that three-accident/CarFax report 120k mile car for more than $40k, which was your first question. There are plenty of zero-CarFax report cars with fewer miles for another five to 15 grand. (One of your comments was that you didn’t want to lose money. When the market turns south, the least desirable cars will drop the furthest.)
If miles don’t scare you and you have any interest in stepping up to a wide body 993 C4S, this accident-free/clean CarFax 122k example is lowest priced one in the market today: https://www.motorcarclassics.com/199...a-4s-c-251.htm.
I bought it by "mistake" on BringATrailer—https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1996-porsche-911-carrera-4s-12/--and it’s available for what I paid, $59,900. My "mistake" was fooling around an auction site when I had already agreed to buy two other 993s. Though I probably could have, I didn’t want to renege on the winning bid, so I bought the car and drove it 100 miles to a consignment shop, where it’s been during my entire ownership, since August. (Just tested that link; don't click on it but copy and paste, as clicking doesn't seem to bring up the car.)
Even if you’re not interested in the C4S, I would be glad to speak with you about my own search, so just let me know.
BTW, as others have said, take your time and find the car that's right for YOU. Part of the fun is the hunt. Enjoy.
Jay’s selling-price chart is a great tool—it’s real information of selling prices, not asks, and now has enough data points to be meaningful.
As for me, based upon my own research, I wouldn’t touch that three-accident/CarFax report 120k mile car for more than $40k, which was your first question. There are plenty of zero-CarFax report cars with fewer miles for another five to 15 grand. (One of your comments was that you didn’t want to lose money. When the market turns south, the least desirable cars will drop the furthest.)
If miles don’t scare you and you have any interest in stepping up to a wide body 993 C4S, this accident-free/clean CarFax 122k example is lowest priced one in the market today: https://www.motorcarclassics.com/199...a-4s-c-251.htm.
I bought it by "mistake" on BringATrailer—https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1996-porsche-911-carrera-4s-12/--and it’s available for what I paid, $59,900. My "mistake" was fooling around an auction site when I had already agreed to buy two other 993s. Though I probably could have, I didn’t want to renege on the winning bid, so I bought the car and drove it 100 miles to a consignment shop, where it’s been during my entire ownership, since August. (Just tested that link; don't click on it but copy and paste, as clicking doesn't seem to bring up the car.)
Even if you’re not interested in the C4S, I would be glad to speak with you about my own search, so just let me know.
BTW, as others have said, take your time and find the car that's right for YOU. Part of the fun is the hunt. Enjoy.
