How do I value a 993 that...
12-09-2018, 08:32 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
I started my search for a driver 993 WB in late 09, focused on a C4S. The market was so much more accessible then, that it’s hard to believe it was only 9 years ago. Pristine, low mile WB’s were mid $40k’s for Christ sake. I settled for a 63k mile 97 C4S, with a dirty Carfax, and paintwork. The current owner had only put 500 miles on the car, mostly track miles, after pouring $7k into the mechanicals after buying the car. He was a long time customer, and personal friend of a very well known NJ shop, that has a pretty good reputation in the Porsche community.
The dirty Carfax didn’t bother me, neither did the paintwork. I’ve added an additional Carfax issue during my ownership also.
I prioritized the mechanicals, as I knew I intended to DD the car. It has served me well, amassing nearly 60k additional miles in my almost 9 years of ownership. I was able to do all the maintenance, and small stuff on the car until this season. It was finally clutch time, and all the while your in there stuff. It wasn’t cheap, but the extremely well known shop that did the work, will only add to the cars value..and possibly help offset some, the Carfax/paintwork issues the car has.
While I still think about some of the other 993’s I considered, especially a couple sub $50k cars now worth well North of $100k...I still believe I made the right choice. Regardless of my cars value, real or perceived....it gets driven everywhere, and still serves as a DD in better weather months here in Central New York.
Why am I waxing on here, if you like that color combo of the dirty carfax 96, are impressed by the recent $$ in service/upgrades, take it to a VERY experienced shop for a PPI. Have them look closely at the floor pans, check out the latest alignment to see if it all comes in spec. Considering the amount of money spent on the mechanicals of that car, if it checks out...and the price is right, then why the hell not.
It all boils down to...do you want to spend $50k on a clean Carfax, no stories 993 that may significant mechanical issues in its eventual future...suspension/clutch/etc. Or are you happy spending $40k on a 993 that you can probably drive for a decade, just paying for gas/oil, and basic maintenance bits.
Some will say, spend the most you can/buy the best you can...that doesn’t interest all.
Good luck, you’ll need it if the bug bites you post purchase. There is always a better widgit for these cars.
The dirty Carfax didn’t bother me, neither did the paintwork. I’ve added an additional Carfax issue during my ownership also.
I prioritized the mechanicals, as I knew I intended to DD the car. It has served me well, amassing nearly 60k additional miles in my almost 9 years of ownership. I was able to do all the maintenance, and small stuff on the car until this season. It was finally clutch time, and all the while your in there stuff. It wasn’t cheap, but the extremely well known shop that did the work, will only add to the cars value..and possibly help offset some, the Carfax/paintwork issues the car has.
While I still think about some of the other 993’s I considered, especially a couple sub $50k cars now worth well North of $100k...I still believe I made the right choice. Regardless of my cars value, real or perceived....it gets driven everywhere, and still serves as a DD in better weather months here in Central New York.
Why am I waxing on here, if you like that color combo of the dirty carfax 96, are impressed by the recent $$ in service/upgrades, take it to a VERY experienced shop for a PPI. Have them look closely at the floor pans, check out the latest alignment to see if it all comes in spec. Considering the amount of money spent on the mechanicals of that car, if it checks out...and the price is right, then why the hell not.
It all boils down to...do you want to spend $50k on a clean Carfax, no stories 993 that may significant mechanical issues in its eventual future...suspension/clutch/etc. Or are you happy spending $40k on a 993 that you can probably drive for a decade, just paying for gas/oil, and basic maintenance bits.
Some will say, spend the most you can/buy the best you can...that doesn’t interest all.
Good luck, you’ll need it if the bug bites you post purchase. There is always a better widgit for these cars.
12-09-2018, 09:20 PM
#62
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Thread Starter
12-09-2018, 09:37 PM
#63
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Thread Starter
There's been LOTS of great advice, input and comments on this thread. As someone who spent ~18 mos. searching for a 993, one of my observations, after driving about eight of them, of all different levels of miles and care, is that EVERY SINGLE ONE of them drove differently. After that I pretty much concluded that I couldn’t buy one without driving it first…or having someone who REALLY knows 993s drive it for me.
Jay’s selling-price chart is a great tool—it’s real information of selling prices, not asks, and now has enough data points to be meaningful.
As for me, based upon my own research, I wouldn’t touch that three-accident/CarFax report 120k mile car for more than $40k, which was your first question. There are plenty of zero-CarFax report cars with fewer miles for another five to 15 grand. (One of your comments was that you didn’t want to lose money. When the market turns south, the least desirable cars will drop the furthest.)
If miles don’t scare you and you have any interest in stepping up to a wide body 993 C4S, this accident-free/clean CarFax 122k example is lowest priced one in the market today: https://www.motorcarclassics.com/199...a-4s-c-251.htm.
I bought it by "mistake" on BringATrailer—https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1996-porsche-911-carrera-4s-12/--and it’s available for what I paid, $59,900. My "mistake" was fooling around an auction site when I had already agreed to buy two other 993s. Though I probably could have, I didn’t want to renege on the winning bid, so I bought the car and drove it 100 miles to a consignment shop, where it’s been during my entire ownership, since August. (Just tested that link; don't click on it but copy and paste, as clicking doesn't seem to bring up the car.)
Even if you’re not interested in the C4S, I would be glad to speak with you about my own search, so just let me know.
BTW, as others have said, take your time and find the car that's right for YOU. Part of the fun is the hunt. Enjoy.
Jay’s selling-price chart is a great tool—it’s real information of selling prices, not asks, and now has enough data points to be meaningful.
As for me, based upon my own research, I wouldn’t touch that three-accident/CarFax report 120k mile car for more than $40k, which was your first question. There are plenty of zero-CarFax report cars with fewer miles for another five to 15 grand. (One of your comments was that you didn’t want to lose money. When the market turns south, the least desirable cars will drop the furthest.)
If miles don’t scare you and you have any interest in stepping up to a wide body 993 C4S, this accident-free/clean CarFax 122k example is lowest priced one in the market today: https://www.motorcarclassics.com/199...a-4s-c-251.htm.
I bought it by "mistake" on BringATrailer—https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1996-porsche-911-carrera-4s-12/--and it’s available for what I paid, $59,900. My "mistake" was fooling around an auction site when I had already agreed to buy two other 993s. Though I probably could have, I didn’t want to renege on the winning bid, so I bought the car and drove it 100 miles to a consignment shop, where it’s been during my entire ownership, since August. (Just tested that link; don't click on it but copy and paste, as clicking doesn't seem to bring up the car.)
Even if you’re not interested in the C4S, I would be glad to speak with you about my own search, so just let me know.
BTW, as others have said, take your time and find the car that's right for YOU. Part of the fun is the hunt. Enjoy.
12-09-2018, 10:18 PM
#64
Originally Posted by BG3
Beautiful C4S! I see the sport seats were swapped in but, are they the same color? They look black in the pics. From the records, it doesn't appear to have been rebuilt. Is that accurate or, did I miss something? In the BAT pics, you could clearly see where the film was applied. It looks like it has been removed or redone in the new listing? Feel free to pm if you prefer. I'm definitely open to learning from folks that are more experienced than I am with these cars. Thank you!
When you say "rebuilt," are you referring to the engine? I don't believe it's been rebuilt and the car comes with tons of records AND I know the last two owners of the car, who, collectively, owned it for over ten years. Both are on RL, where one is much more active than the other, but both are very, very knowledgeable 993 guys. (And I believe either/both would be willing to speak with a new owner.
Regarding the PPF, I have not removed it, so it must just be the photos. I suppose the PPF could be removed but I would do so only with an expert. (In case it wasn't clear, I have done nothing to/with the car, other than pick it up from the BaT seller, fill the tank, and drive it 100 miles to where it is today. (BTW, a prospective buyer just ordered a PPI on the car and he told me it passed with flying colors. Other than pointing out the age of the tires, [for which no one would need a PPI, of course] he said nothing.)
Anyway, glad to discuss that car....or any 993s in general.
12-10-2018, 08:49 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
Frankly if I was in your boat I would try to get that 4S …. just sayin'