Richard C4S

Mavens,
I'm still looking to lower a stock C4S (non-M030 version) and have toyed with all combos mentioned in the list over the past year but havent pulled the trigger yet. The options seem to get better as I perseverate This car is for sport/street use not track but I wish to avoid mismatched shocks/springs and spending alot but not getting much in performance upgrade. Does anyone have any experience with this set up offered by Gert? What is the ride like? Do the HD shocks have the fit problem here in this package described by Viken in the archives (I'm not interested in customizing a fit).
<a href="http://www.carnewal-europe.com/main.htm" target="_blank">http://www.carnewal-europe.com/main.htm</a>

On a C4S are these sway bars appropriate or do I need a thicker rear bar?

Thanks, Richard

Martin S.

I don't know which package you are looking at from Gert, the H&R springs with the Bilstein shocks, or the H&R springs, Bilstein shocks with sway bars. On a C4S the bars you already have may be more than adequate. Serious track junkies are tuning the suspensions with the right springs, and fine tuning with sway bars. I have the M030 RoW set up 22mm front with a 21mm Turbo bar. This is a sweet set up for me and my narrow body car.

I have driven my neighbors car with the PSS9s and the RS bars. He can't feel much, if any, difference on the street...comparing mine to his, and visa versa. Just throw a dart at pictures of suspensions you are looking at, where it lands, order that one. If you are not tracking the car, you will be happy with the set up. You don't have to over-analyze the situation...just do ut! Spend that money; keep the economy rolling, the Euro economy that is if you are buying from Gert.

MetalSolid

I would recommend going with the ROW M030 setup. I have a '97 C4S with US M030, Bilstein shocks and H&R springs, which I would not recommend. Even though my setup handles great and greatly improves performance, there is something lost with the way the car feels in spirited backroad or canyon driving. The problem lies with the H&R springs which are progressive to give you added comfort driving on the street, while still performing well at the track.

Throwing a dart at the board could be very expensive if that dart happens to land on PSS9s with RS bar; you're gonna spend a lot money buying the equipment and getting it adjusted the way that suits your style of driving, when maybe something easier and cheaper would do.

DJF1

I will second the recommendation for the ROW M030 setup if it is strictly for road use. It is better than stock and the ride height can be lowered to an acceptable level. Not sure if you need the sways.
I have the H&R coilover package paired with the Euro M030 sways and I can tell you it is a fantastic setup. However the question of suspension is really a very personal opinion when it comes to street comfort. For track use you can get the best recomendation as the comfort factor does not matter really, so I would suggest before you make any decision to find in your area a 993 with non stock setup and see how you like riding in it... Its a big $$$ decision which I know none of us want to have it wrong...

Good luck!

Kristoffer

I have the H&R springs with 18" wheels & I love them. The ride change isn't as dramdic as the great new look your car will have. I always have prosche & non-porsche owners come up to me to comment on how nice it looks!!

But don't get me wrong with shorter springs you have less sway so it is a better. But if you want a dramadic change then I would go with the coilovers but then you may not like the way it rides on the street!!!

You can see the way my white 993 looks here
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005962#000013" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005962#000013</a>

911-TOUR

Richard,

Good Timing. I just pulled the trigger on a RoW M030 w/M030 sway bars (22mm front/20mm rear) and the Bilstein HD shocks. I also carefully considered the H&R "lowered suspension kit" offered by Gert - as well as the PSS-9 setup. I would say my typical usage is 95% street/commute, 5% track.

In the final analysis, (and after many phone ocalls to various shops, both here & in Ca) I came to the conclusion that Porsche knows how to match these components, and mix/match solutions may leave me wanting in the end. The Bilstein HD shocks are designed and valved as OEM replacements for the porsche "sport suspension" shocks (direct from Bilstein's customer service) so they should be a suitable substitute for the OEM monroes that come with the RoW M030 setup.

What I found out was that the H&R springs in Gert's kit are slightly softer than the M030 springs, and are progressive all around (the M030 springs are progressive in front only - not necessarily bad - just different). Since the springs should be the component that takes most of the stress of reducing body roll/acceleration pitch/brake dive (not the sway bars, which should remain largely unstressed, except in a turn - and then should only provide backup roll stability) I figured that a stiffer spring was probably what I wanted.

If you are concerned about lowering and/or proper corner balancing w/the M030 setup, I was told by a couple of shops that the custom spring perch collar that Viken and Mark Hergeshiemer developed is absolutely necessary. The front shock needs between 1/4" & 2/5" more threads to allow the setup to be properly balanced when the ride height is set at RoW levels. Bilstein is actually aware of this, according to what I have learned. The collars are less than $100 from what Hergeshiemer Motorsports told me when I called them to order last week.

I should also mention that the PSS-9 system is a great setup for roughly $400-$700 more - with/without the monoball shock mounts & the RS swaybars add $600 over the M030 sways. I figured that it was probably overkill for what I wanted, however.

It's a tough decsision, and not one to be taken lightly with a $50000 sports car cabable of speeds over 150 mph. Do your homework, and remember that shopping is half the fun!

cheers,

sean

TT Gasman

Sean are you going to have the new suspension ready for the Feb TWS event? Hope to see you there. BTW I'm surprised Porsche OEM on the 993 M030 is a Monroe , I know the 996s now all have Bilsteins as std. & sport OEM.

Luis A.

Sean:

So the Hergeshiemer Motorsports perches/collars are all that's required in addition to Gert's kit to get the ride height to be true ROW? Sounds like they are only needed for the front as the rears do provide ample threading, is that correct?

I went to the Hergeshiemer Motorsports website and can't see any specific info on the collars. Do you just call and order them and they know what you're talking about...?

Thanks,

Luis

Chris C.

I too am considering this setup from Gert, who reports that the H&R springs are tuned well to the Bilstein HD shocks. I do 3-6 track events per year, and like a stiff ride on the street.

Anyone else actually running this package?

Yes, the H&R springs were too soft/short for the base 993 shocks, causing poor dampening. But was this true with the US or ROW M030 shocks (and therefore the HDs, if they are actually a direct replacement for the OEM monroe sport shocks?)

As I remember it, Robin went to M030 shocks with his Eibach's (before the HDs) and it settled the mismatch in spring/shock rate a bit)...Robin?

Thanks !

Martin S.

Chris writes, "But was this true with the US or ROW M030 shocks (and therefore the HDs, if they are actually a direct replacement for the OEM monroe sport shocks?)"

For all intents and purposes, the M030 RoW shocks (Monroes) are what is found on the US 993TT cars, red to red orange in color. The M030 RoW springs are different than M030 US, but I can assure they are not too short.

Also, as Viken has noted, the HD Bilstein shocks need spring perches on the front to lower the car to an acceptable level.

I have the M030 sprinhs and the Turbo shocks with 22mm front, 21mm rear and I love this set up. When I can get the car to go to the point where I have maxed out this suspension, then I will go to the PSS9s, most likely, with MONOBALLS. I just need a big "score" to pay for these items.

Robert Henriksen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by DJ 996:
<strong>Sean are you going to have the new suspension ready for the Feb TWS event? Hope to see you there. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That's been a fluid situation... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . I was going to say that it just depended on whether I can do his suspension change faster than I'm getting my PSS9 done! I just did my second adjust&reinstall of the rears, am ~5-10mm too high, still. Then there's getting the swaybar mount positioned... bleah.

Anyway, Sean's scheduled to come over next weekend & install all this stuff at my place... but apparently has a schedule conflict for the Feb. DE <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

911-TOUR

Robert,

Now I have a schedule conflict for next weekend (Jan 18) as well - as another post mentioned Friday, I'm going to have to be out in Mtn View. Ca on business. Uhhg. Plus, I don't think the collars are going to be here by then. But the other parts arrived from Gert Friday.

As for setting the ride height on my car, I figured we'd just measure the spring perch distances from your old setup and set mine up the same before we try and get them on the car. Any reason why this wouldn't work ?

DJ 996, I'm not going to make it to the Feb DE, due to scheduling conflicts with my SO. Grin. I've blocked out my calendar (both personal & buisness) for the April one. I might even have one of Steve's chips by then...wink, wink.

Luis, Yes, the collars (front only) are all that is needed to set the ride height to RoW.

That take care of everybody ?

cheers,

sean

DJF1

There are 2 events on Feb. One on Feb 1,2 by the TWS club and the LSR next weekend. Hope to see you guys on one of the two! I'll be attending both and I can't wait!!! If you guys need any help after January 20th please let me know!

Chris you said you like a stiff ride and will do track events. Either the PSS-9 or H&R coilovers with the M030 sways is a sweet set-up for mixed use and not that more expensive than the HD combo.

Robert Henriksen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Sean Spicer:
<strong>As for setting the ride height on my car, I figured we'd just measure the spring perch distances from your old setup and set mine up the same before we try and get them on the car. Any reason why this wouldn't work ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That's a starting point, we'll probably wind up fiddling w. it some regardless.

Harold

Have the M030 ROW springs, sway bars and HD shocks. Absolultely transformed the cars handling.

Only thing I noticed was that the rear HD shocks were too long for the springs. As such there was the possibility for the springs to unperch themselves from the rubber seats at the top when the car was raised (eg wheel change or flying over a bump).

My solution was to use steel wire to hold the springs to the rubber seats hence ensuring that they do not misalign themselves.