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Old Jul 11, 2025 | 07:23 PM
  #91  
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Will I need to re-activate my matrix headlights via PIWIS if I do the tune?
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Old Jul 11, 2025 | 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Aperture776
Will I need to re-activate my matrix headlights via PIWIS if I do the tune?
No, as they are controlled by the front CU which is a totally separate unit.

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Old Jul 11, 2025 | 07:44 PM
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THANK YOU SCOTT! You snooze, you lose.

Last edited by Fullyield; Jul 12, 2025 at 11:05 AM.
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dg108
Just purchased and I will certainly share feedback. As much as I would like cold-start eliminated, Scott's rationale for why not to do it makes a lot of sense. APR does not turn it off either fwiw.
I'm curious what part of Scott's rationale seemed solid to you? He told me that the cold-start procedure's rich fuel mixture lubricated the piston skirts, which prevented bore-scoring. However, I can't find any technical evidence to back this up, and when I asked Scott for some supporting evidence (beyond his own personal beliefs) he couldn't provide any.

What I did find were these posts from LN Engineering and PCA stating that because gasoline is a solvent, a rich mixture can actually "wash" the cylinder walls of any remaining lubricating oil, actually increasing wear.
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by fleetfoot15
I'm curious what part of Scott's rationale seemed solid to you? He told me that the cold-start procedure's rich fuel mixture lubricated the piston skirts, which prevented bore-scoring. However, I can't find any technical evidence to back this up, and when I asked Scott for some supporting evidence (beyond his own personal beliefs) he couldn't provide any.

What I did find were these posts from LN Engineering and PCA stating that because gasoline is a solvent, a rich mixture can actually "wash" the cylinder walls of any remaining lubricating oil, actually increasing wear.
You have a 981 GT4 and I explained why it was used and its on my site. I also mentioned that while I would lower the RPM I wouldn't also remove the fueling and you could return it for a full refund. I'm sure another tuner will do it for you.


Perhaps when I have the time I will publish another article on it since I'm now the Tech expert for the 2012 and newer engines. I used to be yet did not have the time for the Cayman, Boxster and Carrera GT cars in their entirety years ago to continue.... Most of all the Q&A was lost in a server crash yet many of the articles are still in the Panorama , Car and Driver, Excellence, Christophorus and various books etc.

There are differences in opinions and advertisers to experts in the field.

Semper Fi!
Scott
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 11:41 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by fleetfoot15
I'm curious what part of Scott's rationale seemed solid to you? He told me that the cold-start procedure's rich fuel mixture lubricated the piston skirts, which prevented bore-scoring. However, I can't find any technical evidence to back this up, and when I asked Scott for some supporting evidence (beyond his own personal beliefs) he couldn't provide any.

What I did find were these posts from LN Engineering and PCA stating that because gasoline is a solvent, a rich mixture can actually "wash" the cylinder walls of any remaining lubricating oil, actually increasing wear.
I am no expert but if you read the articles you posted they talk about the older 911's (M96/97 3.4 and 3.6l engines) and in the second article it explicitely states "...There (ed M96/97) is no plating or coating on the cylinder bores like Nikasil, used for decades by Porsche, or SUMEbore, which is now used on the 991.2 and 718 engines." So, sounds like they learned their lesson and now use SUMEbore and not Lokalis/Alusil.
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 12:28 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Softronic
You have a 981 GT4 and I explained why it was used and its on my site. I also mentioned that while I would lower the RPM I wouldn't also remove the fueling and you could return it for a full refund. I'm sure another tuner will do it for you.


Perhaps when I have the time I will publish another article on it since I'm now the Tech expert for the 2012 and newer engines. I used to be yet did not have the time for the Cayman, Boxster and Carrera GT cars in their entirety years ago to continue.... Most of all the Q&A was lost in a server crash yet many of the articles are still in the Panorama , Car and Driver, Excellence, Christophorus and various books etc.

There are differences in opinions and advertisers to experts in the field.

Semper Fi!
Scott
Based on the Softronic 981 GT4 product page stating "While Softronic can it does NOT recommend Cold Start Elimination" I was under the impression removal could be done upon request, but I guess that isn't the case. I will be getting a refund as Scott mentioned since cold-start removal was my primary driver for getting a tune.

Scott, if you could explain why cylinder wall washing doesn't happen for the 9A1 when running a rich fuel mixture at startup when this seems to be a well-known occurrence in the automotive world when a motor is running rich (even beyond Porsche), that would be helpful. Sharing technical sources beyond your personal opinions/beliefs would be helpful in building the credibility of this position.
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fleetfoot15
Based on the Softronic 981 GT4 product page stating "While Softronic can it does NOT recommend Cold Start Elimination" I was under the impression removal could be done upon request, but I guess that isn't the case. I will be getting a refund as Scott mentioned since cold-start removal was my primary driver for getting a tune.

Scott, if you could explain why cylinder wall washing doesn't happen for the 9A1 when running a rich fuel mixture at startup when this seems to be a well-known occurrence in the automotive world when a motor is running rich (even beyond Porsche), that would be helpful. Sharing technical sources beyond your personal opinions/beliefs would be helpful in building the credibility of this position.
There is a big difference from washing down a cylinder with extra fuel that will then go into the oil and contaminate it compared to a proper controlled amount. Should the washing be that bad it will add literally to the oil level over time unless burnt at the same rate. All engines require more fueling for cold starting. We used to call them chokes in if they were manual or automatically controlled and the fuel inj cars use several different types in principle in how it works. This would range from the older RSR mechanical, CSI, Motronic and so on. The newer cars have 4 levels for the inj in fuel control and its not just based off of a time duration for a given fuel pressure as the older port injection and progressive DFI cars have gone through.

I work on facts and data and not personal opinions in which anyone can post an article as either as we get it from the news all the time and it all gets mixed up in what is or isn't. I do have my own personal opinions yet not when it comes to tuning or building race engines that I know are an issue.

I think we can agree to disagree

Semper Fi!
Scott

Last edited by Softronic; Jul 14, 2025 at 05:15 PM. Reason: It to in ......
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 02:25 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Softronic
There is a big difference from washing down a cylinder with extra fuel that will then go into the oil and contaminate it compared to a proper controlled amount. Should the washing be that bad it will add literally to the oil level over time unless burnt at the same rate. All engines require more fueling for cold starting. We used to call them chokes in if they were manual or automatically controlled and the fuel inj cars use several different types in principle in how it works. This would range from the older RSR mechanical, CSI, Motronic and so on. The newer cars have 4 levels for the inj in fuel control and its not just based off of a time duration for a given fuel pressure as the older port injection and progressive DFI cars have gone through.

I work on facts and data and not personal opinions in which anyone can post an article as either as we get it from the news all the time and it all gets mixed up it what is or isn't. I do have my own personal opinions yet not when it comes to tuning or building race engines that I know are an issue.

I think we can agree to disagree

Semper Fi!
Scott
Well articulated response.
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 03:06 PM
  #100  
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From the additional information provided by Scott, it sounds like in a cold start situation Porsche might have enough fueling control to avoid washing, so perhaps the extra fuel doesn't cause bore scoring. The second part I'm curious about is the assertion that the rich fuel during the cold-start procedure lubricates the piston skirts, actually preventing bore scoring. I haven't been able to find any technical documentation (or personal opinions beyond Scott's) supporting this hypothesis, which is why I asked for additional information in the first place.

FWIW, the links I shared above weren't from some rando forum post. They were from LN Engineering (seems credible) and was also posted on the PCA website, which also seems like a credible organization, and I assume anything posted there would be peer-reviewed.
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 03:41 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by fleetfoot15
I'm curious what part of Scott's rationale seemed solid to you? He told me that the cold-start procedure's rich fuel mixture lubricated the piston skirts, which prevented bore-scoring. However, I can't find any technical evidence to back this up, and when I asked Scott for some supporting evidence (beyond his own personal beliefs) he couldn't provide any.

What I did find were these posts from LN Engineering and PCA stating that because gasoline is a solvent, a rich mixture can actually "wash" the cylinder walls of any remaining lubricating oil, actually increasing wear.
Interesting that both, LN Engineering and PCO advertise for the Driven brand of fuel additives and engine oil. I'm always a bit suspicious if articles lists manufacturers
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 04:02 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by fleetfoot15
FWIW, the links I shared above weren't from some rando forum post. They were from LN Engineering (seems credible) and was also posted on the PCA website, which also seems like a credible organization, and I assume anything posted there would be peer-reviewed.
I took the time to read the articles you linked and my understanding is the following: If you don't have raw, uncoated aluminum bores, as they were used for a period of time by Porsche and other manufacturer for cost savings (?), you don't have the issue of "washing" as you describe to start with. Uncoated alu bores rely on having sufficient exposed silicon particles remaining on the faces of the alu cylinder bore to support oil film formation and with that prevent scoring. For engines that have bores with Nikasil or SUMEbore that is not the case. Again, not my words but that is what I get from your linked articles. I also searched a little more and found interesting articles and posts from Hartech like here or here. There are more discussions particular about the 9A1 but some of the links in there (back to Hartech) dont seem to work anymore.
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 04:47 PM
  #103  
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Just ordered! With Scott's and everyone's input here plus the sale, I couldn't pass it up any longer.
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 04:56 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Aperture776
Just ordered! With Scott's and everyone's input here plus the sale, I couldn't pass it up any longer.


Sweet deal!
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Old Jul 14, 2025 | 06:36 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by fleetfoot15
From the additional information provided by Scott, it sounds like in a cold start situation Porsche might have enough fueling control to avoid washing, so perhaps the extra fuel doesn't cause bore scoring. The second part I'm curious about is the assertion that the rich fuel during the cold-start procedure lubricates the piston skirts, actually preventing bore scoring. I haven't been able to find any technical documentation (or personal opinions beyond Scott's) supporting this hypothesis, which is why I asked for additional information in the first place.

FWIW, the links I shared above weren't from some rando forum post. They were from LN Engineering (seems credible) and was also posted on the PCA website, which also seems like a credible organization, and I assume anything posted there would be peer-reviewed.
Do you have a 997, a 991.1 a 991.2 or a 992?
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