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I somewhat agree with OP. I went in to test drive a 911 twice initially.
First time I went in my model S. I drove a 4S model and turned everything into as sport mode as possible for 10+ miles. It had 2200 miles on it. 992 handled better than the model S of course but felt laggy as compared to it. It was a disappointing test drive but I wasn't ready to give up on the hype of a 911.
Second time I went in my Corvette grand sport and the same 992 didn't feel sporty enough. It was a yellow 4S with many missing comfort features that why it wasn't selling I guess. It felt a little faster as the NA engine of grand sport needs revs before it goes but turbo lag was bad in 992. I preferred the drive and sportiness of Corvette.
They had a GTS 4.0 Cayman sitting there that somebody couldn't take delivery of that morning. I drove it once and took it home the same day and traded in my Corvette. I drive it 99% of the time despite having 3 other cars + couple of motorcycles.
Before anybody says apples VS oranges, the driving experience definitely was apples vs oranges. Cayman GTS driving experience was much better than 911. It felt like a sports car they put their heart in, not brains only.
I have still not owned a 911 but from my experiences it felt more like a fat sports sedan, than a sports car. My sales advisor suggested me to go for a GTS and I put down $5k towards a 992 GTS allocation as long as I get to test drive one first. Haven't driven one still and no allocation either. If the GTS model drives better I would prefer the 991.2 GTS model. It looks better I feel but can't order that and I hate black wheels.
From the OPs garage, I don’t think that a manual transmission in a 992 is going to swing the needle here.
The Taycan is an engaging and entertaining EV to drive. Steering was clearly coded by the same folks who coded the 992 EPAS. It’s not a Tesla. It drives like a real car. Agreed with the OP that EV throttle response is a different level.
I did the same switch as the OP back in 2022 after putting more than 35k miles on my 992C4S. I had zero regrets. Had the car not been totaled by an idiot that rear ended me, I’d still have the car. I put over 26k miles on that Taycan in 8 months.
A couple of years ago, I picked up a 3 pedal 991.2 Targa and I adore that car, but I daily an F150 Lightning, because EVs are simply better daily drivers. That’s not to say that the Targa 4 doesn’t get out on the weekdays. It’s the truck that I will simply take anywhere and with solar, it truly costs me nothing to operate.
What about NA engagement? Carrera T? GT? Blah blah. I have 7 motorcycles in addition to the four wheel stuff. 208HP out of a liter,14k RPM redline, and a dry weight of 410lbs. If going fast with an NA and a manual is your thing, get a bike.
I had their 800 RR SCS 3 years ago, dropped due to stupid SCS system and then sold. They are quirky machines and the 800 didn't sound good. It sounded disappointingly like a sewing machine. This seems like an RS model and should sound better.
And get rid of those rear view mirrors man.....get those CRG arrow ends
I somewhat agree with OP. I went in to test drive a 911 twice initially.
First time I went in my model S. I drove a 4S model and turned everything into as sport mode as possible for 10+ miles. It had 2200 miles on it. 992 handled better than the model S of course but felt laggy as compared to it. It was a disappointing test drive but I wasn't ready to give up on the hype of a 911.
Second time I went in my Corvette grand sport and the same 992 didn't feel sporty enough. It was a yellow 4S with many missing comfort features that why it wasn't selling I guess. It felt a little faster as the NA engine of grand sport needs revs before it goes but turbo lag was bad in 992. I preferred the drive and sportiness of Corvette.
They had a GTS 4.0 Cayman sitting there that somebody couldn't take delivery of that morning. I drove it once and took it home the same day and traded in my Corvette. I drive it 99% of the time despite having 3 other cars + couple of motorcycles.
Before anybody says apples VS oranges, the driving experience definitely was apples vs oranges. Cayman GTS driving experience was much better than 911. It felt like a sports car they put their heart in, not brains only.
I have still not owned a 911 but from my experiences it felt more like a fat sports sedan, than a sports car. My sales advisor suggested me to go for a GTS and I put down $5k towards a 992 GTS allocation as long as I get to test drive one first. Haven't driven one still and no allocation either. If the GTS model drives better I would prefer the 991.2 GTS model. It looks better I feel but can't order that and I hate black wheels.
Never driven a 718 GTS 4.0 but would not be surprised at all if this would be my reaction. The turbocharged 3.0L just isn't that exciting, especially if compared to some of these NA engines.
Yes, we all get it. The Taycan has a steeper depreciation curve. The OP made his decision and even responded to you earlier:
Originally Posted by Emosgarage
This is why I leased the Taycan and got a demo model… not worried about resale or depreciation…. with all the money Porsche is throwing at these cars, my lease on a $115k Taycan is less than a lease on a $68k base Macan…. it’s crazy. and Porsche will pay for the charging for 3 years…. and I’ll save about $4k by not putting premium fuel in the 911.
I don't think he's here looking for financial advice from the RL comptrollers.
I took a base Taycan 12 month lease while I wait for a 992.2 GTS build. I actually am enjoying the Taycan. I am looking forward to the Hybrid 911 as a DD.
Yes, we all get it. The Taycan has a steeper depreciation curve. The OP made his decision and even responded to you earlier:
I don't think he's here looking for financial advice from the RL comptrollers.
Actually the point is that EV's are a complete financial disaster for the entire economy. Individual owners lose enormous sums of money buying them. Corporations invest billions of dollars due to government mandates, and then lose tens of thousands of dollars on each car sold. Car company employees are starting to lose their jobs (with many more cuts to come) because EV's require far fewer people to make. This is entirely due to unrealistic government mandates which the market does not support. Toyota has it right. EV's will settle in at around 30% of the market with hybrid, ICE and alternative fuel vehicles comprising the remainder. There is an ugly reconning coming, with massive write downs of worthless corporate assets and many more layoffs. When governments interfere with markets, this is the inevitable result. Same as it ever was.
Actually the point is that EV's are a complete financial disaster for the entire economy. Individual owners lose enormous sums of money buying them. Corporations invest billions of dollars due to government mandates, and then lose tens of thousands of dollars on each car sold. Car company employees are starting to lose their jobs (with many more cuts to come) because EV's require far fewer people to make. This is entirely due to unrealistic government mandates which the market does not support. Toyota has it right. EV's will settle in at around 30% of the market with hybrid, ICE and alternative fuel vehicles comprising the remainder. There is an ugly reconning coming, with massive write downs of worthless corporate assets and many more layoffs. When governments interfere with markets, this is the inevitable result. Same as it ever was.
Yea, we probably agree on policy, but my comment was: you don't have to lecture on this (or every) post about people's financial decisions. Most have made it here without it..
👍🏻
I've said goodbye to my 991 as well. Owned for 6 months and most of the time it was sitting in the garage. I just didn't know where to take her. Traffic everywhere, very limited and terrible city drivers. After all, just better to sit in the garage instead...
I have also felt the car was sort of old... The PDK was great, but it takes a significant time to kick in. I've driven the 992 which felt a lot more pleasing
After all, I still want the new 992, possibly the Turbo and I would just track her and call it a day...
Compare it to my Tesla Y Performance. It's apple to oranges. It's an awesome EV, but the 911 is a totally different world.
Actually the point is that EV's are a complete financial disaster for the entire economy. Individual owners lose enormous sums of money buying them. Corporations invest billions of dollars due to government mandates, and then lose tens of thousands of dollars on each car sold. Car company employees are starting to lose their jobs (with many more cuts to come) because EV's require far fewer people to make. This is entirely due to unrealistic government mandates which the market does not support. Toyota has it right. EV's will settle in at around 30% of the market with hybrid, ICE and alternative fuel vehicles comprising the remainder. There is an ugly reconning coming, with massive write downs of worthless corporate assets and many more layoffs. When governments interfere with markets, this is the inevitable result. Same as it ever was.
I never thought I'd say this in my life, but EV>ICE minus specialty vehicles like a 911 or other comparable sports cars. This statement took my wife forcing me to allow her to buy an EV which I was against. After living with it, there is no better DD/Commuter car unless you need a purpose built vehicle like van, truck or sports car. Besides a pure hobby standpoint, SCREW dumping cash into pointless expensive maintenance on ICE vehicles. Go try changing your oil on a Cayenne or better yet forking up cash for one. Imagine paying money to replace a belt on an ordinary ICE vehicle. Now if were talking a 911/Corvette etc.. My pleasure, I'd love to change the oil and perform maintenance on a fine vehicle.
Blame the manufacturers for making the same old mundane redundant vehicles. 911 Carrera included sans an MT. If you live in an apartment and can't charge your EV, that sounds like a personal problem.
Businesses/corporations all cook their books. Especially when publicly traded. Dealers hate EV's because it nukes their scammy service side of things
But you are right about the governments. They are the reason why we can't V10 sedans anymore along with other unique vehicles.
Yes this thread is a great ad for MT, but its also a testament to how crappy new cars have become.
PS: Toyota has become garbage. Sh1tty and expensive. Two things they were not. This is coming from a Toyota lover, their heyday is long gone.
I never thought I'd say this in my life, but EV>ICE minus specialty vehicles like a 911 or other comparable sports cars. This statement took my wife forcing me to allow her to buy an EV which I was against. After living with it, there is no better DD/Commuter car unless you need a purpose built vehicle like van, truck or sports car. Besides a pure hobby standpoint, SCREW dumping cash into pointless expensive maintenance on ICE vehicles. Go try changing your oil on a Cayenne or better yet forking up cash for one. Imagine paying money to replace a belt on an ordinary ICE vehicle. Now if were talking a 911/Corvette etc.. My pleasure, I'd love to change the oil and perform maintenance on a fine vehicle.
Blame the manufacturers for making the same old mundane redundant vehicles. 911 Carrera included sans an MT. If you live in an apartment and can't charge your EV, that sounds like a personal problem.
Businesses/corporations all cook their books. Especially when publicly traded. Dealers hate EV's because it nukes their scammy service side of things
But you are right about the governments. They are the reason why we can't V10 sedans anymore along with other unique vehicles.
Yes this thread is a great ad for MT, but its also a testament to how crappy new cars have become.
PS: Toyota has become garbage. Sh1tty and expensive. Two things they were not. This is coming from a Toyota lover, their heyday is long gone.
If EVs work for your lifestyle, they're hard to beat and will become increasingly so as they get cheaper to produce. I don't get the point of buying a performance EV or a performance ICE SUV. Same crap to me. But for the purposes of a soulless appliance, they are not bad at all.
I disagree on Toyotas. With the cost of ownership and resale factored in, they're still one of the best
I never thought I'd say this in my life, but EV>ICE minus specialty vehicles like a 911 or other comparable sports cars. This statement took my wife forcing me to allow her to buy an EV which I was against. After living with it, there is no better DD/Commuter car unless you need a purpose built vehicle like van, truck or sports car. Besides a pure hobby standpoint, SCREW dumping cash into pointless expensive maintenance on ICE vehicles. Go try changing your oil on a Cayenne or better yet forking up cash for one. Imagine paying money to replace a belt on an ordinary ICE vehicle. Now if were talking a 911/Corvette etc.. My pleasure, I'd love to change the oil and perform maintenance on a fine vehicle.
Blame the manufacturers for making the same old mundane redundant vehicles. 911 Carrera included sans an MT. If you live in an apartment and can't charge your EV, that sounds like a personal problem.
Businesses/corporations all cook their books. Especially when publicly traded. Dealers hate EV's because it nukes their scammy service side of things
But you are right about the governments. They are the reason why we can't V10 sedans anymore along with other unique vehicles.
Yes this thread is a great ad for MT, but its also a testament to how crappy new cars have become.
PS: Toyota has become garbage. Sh1tty and expensive. Two things they were not. This is coming from a Toyota lover, their heyday is long gone.
Watch the Shmee video. Spoken like a true upper class snob with no connection to most people's real world. Most people will never have "in home" charging, even if in an apartment. Sounds a lot like "let them eat cake" to me.
EVs are about as boring as it gets as far as I’m concerned. I was so happy to turn in my polestar 2 lease. Even with the performance pack the blistering acceleration gets old fairly quick. I really missed the soul of driving an ice vehicle as well as not being held hostage by software updates(mostly bad). I read the little blip in Panorama about a survey where almost half of US EV drivers would be returning to ice for their next vehicle. YMMV.
If EVs work for your lifestyle, they're hard to beat and will become increasingly so as they get cheaper to produce. I don't get the point of buying a performance EV or a performance ICE SUV. Same crap to me. But for the purposes of a soulless appliance, they are not bad at all.
I disagree on Toyotas. With the cost of ownership and resale factored in, they're still one of the best
Agreed on performance EV's. No point.
Disagree on Toyota. Their trucks suck now, the LC is dead in North America. Hybrid powerplants are a fail in the Tundra/Sequoia. Cabin space, headroom, shoulder room all gone. New tundras are cramped and feel like a Jeep Wrangler. Fake V8 sounds from the speakers. No front tow hooks? Huge chin for aero to meet MPG standards. Just awful. That all goes for the Tacoma too.
Originally Posted by jmrichards
Watch the Shmee video. Spoken like a true upper class snob with no connection to most people's real world. Most people will never have "in home" charging, even if in an apartment. Sounds a lot like "let them eat cake" to me.
I will never watch a Shmee video or listen to that guys voice. Why would you buy an EV and not have at home charging for cost of roughly $600-$1200? It pays for itself rapidly. 0-100% charging for a "full tank" will cost you $8-$12. Kill yourself and maybe $15-$20 during peak hours at home from 0%. Only other reason is if you're offered free public charging which admittedly is garbage besides Tesla's network.
If you buy an EV without home charging or free/convenient charging elsewhere then you just did bad or no homework.
Originally Posted by Icegrill
EVs are about as boring as it gets as far as I’m concerned. I was so happy to turn in my polestar 2 lease. Even with the performance pack the blistering acceleration gets old fairly quick. I really missed the soul of driving an ice vehicle as well as not being held hostage by software updates(mostly bad). I read the little blip in Panorama about a survey where almost half of US EV drivers would be returning to ice for their next vehicle. YMMV.
With all due respect.. You bought a Polestar, brother. There's nothing blistering about Polestar acceleration and the car itself is an abomination to the world of cars. What's their charging network like? No wonder why they're practically non existent on the roads anymore.
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I'm just adding to the OP's point. His post was dead on to be frank. EV's will not replace a proper ICE experience. Keyword: Proper. Let's keep it real though, 9/10 ICE cars built today are mundane garbage. If they made motors like a 970-970.2 GTS with the NA V8, you got my attention because that is literal music to the ears. Are today's boosted cars music to the ears? Nope, everything is the same from BMW-Audi-Benz. Just choose the shape and badge that speaks to your lifestyle and carry than brand flag everywhere you go.
Pumping gas is fun in a sweet car. Pumping gas is a chore in an ordinary DD.
Disagree on Toyota. Their trucks suck now, the LC is dead in North America. Hybrid powerplants are a fail in the Tundra/Sequoia. Cabin space, headroom, shoulder room all gone. New tundras are cramped and feel like a Jeep Wrangler. Fake V8 sounds from the speakers. No front tow hooks? Huge chin for aero to meet MPG standards. Just awful. That all goes for the Tacoma too.
I will never watch a Shmee video or listen to that guys voice. Why would you buy an EV and not have at home charging for cost of roughly $600-$1200? It pays for itself rapidly. 0-100% charging for a "full tank" will cost you $8-$12. Kill yourself and maybe $15-$20 during peak hours at home from 0%. Only other reason is if you're offered free public charging which admittedly is garbage besides Tesla's network.
If you buy an EV without home charging or free/convenient charging elsewhere then you just did bad or no homework.
With all due respect.. You bought a Polestar, brother. There's nothing blistering about Polestar acceleration and the car itself is an abomination to the world of cars. What's their charging network like? No wonder why they're practically non existent on the roads anymore.
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I'm just adding to the OP's point. His post was dead on to be frank. EV's will not replace a proper ICE experience. Keyword: Proper. Let's keep it real though, 9/10 ICE cars built today are mundane garbage. If they made motors like a 970-970.2 GTS with the NA V8, you got my attention because that is literal music to the ears. Are today's boosted cars music to the ears? Nope, everything is the same from BMW-Audi-Benz. Just choose the shape and badge that speaks to your lifestyle and carry than brand flag everywhere you go.
Pumping gas is fun in a sweet car. Pumping gas is a chore in an ordinary DD.
Thanks for the enlightening BORTHER! You got it all figured out.
09-11-2024 | 06:37 PM
