Consumer shift in demand. Why the 992.2 is better?
06-10-2024, 11:58 AM
#17
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
If you've ever been part of a Porsche focus group (and I have), I would venture that over 2/3 of the people in the room want more creature comforts in the 911 (hence the revised cupholder), more customization, easier ingress/egress, easier (read: lighter) steering, and none of them care about analog this or central tachometer that or switches and ***** for this or that.
A few will want a MT, and some will want more power.
Most people have never heard of Rennlist and if you tell them about it, they look at you like, "why would spend my time talking about other people's 911 and what color they should get for their car, when I have to get to work, take care of the kids, go out with the wife, take care of my parents?" Y'know, normal real life stuff.
Whether you like it or not, the 992.2 911 will do just fine. Porsche knows exactly what it is doing.
A few will want a MT, and some will want more power.
Most people have never heard of Rennlist and if you tell them about it, they look at you like, "why would spend my time talking about other people's 911 and what color they should get for their car, when I have to get to work, take care of the kids, go out with the wife, take care of my parents?" Y'know, normal real life stuff.
Whether you like it or not, the 992.2 911 will do just fine. Porsche knows exactly what it is doing.
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06-10-2024, 12:29 PM
#19
Checks out. Millennials tend to make everything about THEM.
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06-10-2024, 12:31 PM
#20
You'd be surprised a lot of 20-30 year olds managed to make a lot of money from the internet. I know of 5 guys that recently bought gt3/gt3rs all in there early 20s all for over MSRP.
I also remember looking at gt3s in 2018-2019 and I'm pretty they were all well under MSRP.
As for social media every other reel or video I see on instagram/tiktok/youtube is of a 911 and the funny thing to me is that the people I see liking these videos from my mutuals aren't even car people, and no nothing about the heritage or performance.
I also remember looking at gt3s in 2018-2019 and I'm pretty they were all well under MSRP.
As for social media every other reel or video I see on instagram/tiktok/youtube is of a 911 and the funny thing to me is that the people I see liking these videos from my mutuals aren't even car people, and no nothing about the heritage or performance.
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Vernin (06-17-2024)
06-10-2024, 12:41 PM
#21
I'm talking based on the people around me and not just based off social media or influencers.
With that being said Porsche is in fact trying to appeal for a younger crowd one way or another, check out the Pixar & the Hypebeast collaborations I'm pretty these weren't aimed at 50 year olds.
With that being said Porsche is in fact trying to appeal for a younger crowd one way or another, check out the Pixar & the Hypebeast collaborations I'm pretty these weren't aimed at 50 year olds.
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Vernin (06-17-2024)
06-10-2024, 01:03 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Social media is a cancer on culture, proof that we are moving closer to the dystopian underworld futures of so many sci-fi movies. Technology is not uplifting society, but creating a bigger divide.
And maybe new money idiots are social media and internet driven, but if anything, their success is further proof that people are sheeple. Social media is for the moronic masses. All you are saying is that Porsche is happy to take the sheeple's money.
And maybe new money idiots are social media and internet driven, but if anything, their success is further proof that people are sheeple. Social media is for the moronic masses. All you are saying is that Porsche is happy to take the sheeple's money.
Had to. 🤣
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06-10-2024, 01:05 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Isn't that exactly what all the negative nabobs are doing doing on here? Just like every other 911 generation since the 356 to 901/11 move there's a significant volume of bitching from the previous gen old guy owners.
Wasn't it the end of the world when water cooled came around?
The 992 was too big.
The 991 was too big.
The 991.2 wasn't NA.
And so on and so on and so on.
It's tough realizing at a certain age, 56 here, that the next generation of every product outside of Depends Diapers, isn't being developed for us. The 20-30 year old's might not (big assumption that can easily be debated) be buying 911s today but developing products that they aspire to is what is going to keep every manufacturer in business.
Wasn't it the end of the world when water cooled came around?
The 992 was too big.
The 991 was too big.
The 991.2 wasn't NA.
And so on and so on and so on.
It's tough realizing at a certain age, 56 here, that the next generation of every product outside of Depends Diapers, isn't being developed for us. The 20-30 year old's might not (big assumption that can easily be debated) be buying 911s today but developing products that they aspire to is what is going to keep every manufacturer in business.
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06-10-2024, 01:09 PM
#25
If you've ever been part of a Porsche focus group (and I have), I would venture that over 2/3 of the people in the room want more creature comforts in the 911 (hence the revised cupholder), more customization, easier ingress/egress, easier (read: lighter) steering, and none of them care about analog this or central tachometer that or switches and ***** for this or that.
A few will want a MT, and some will want more power.
Most people have never heard of Rennlist and if you tell them about it, they look at you like, "why would spend my time talking about other people's 911 and what color they should get for their car, when I have to get to work, take care of the kids, go out with the wife, take care of my parents?" Y'know, normal real life stuff.
Whether you like it or not, the 992.2 911 will do just fine. Porsche knows exactly what it is doing.
A few will want a MT, and some will want more power.
Most people have never heard of Rennlist and if you tell them about it, they look at you like, "why would spend my time talking about other people's 911 and what color they should get for their car, when I have to get to work, take care of the kids, go out with the wife, take care of my parents?" Y'know, normal real life stuff.
Whether you like it or not, the 992.2 911 will do just fine. Porsche knows exactly what it is doing.
06-10-2024, 01:26 PM
#26
Isn't that exactly what all the negative nabobs are doing doing on here? Just like every other 911 generation since the 356 to 901/11 move there's a significant volume of bitching from the previous gen old guy owners.
Wasn't it the end of the world when water cooled came around?
The 992 was too big.
The 991 was too big.
The 991.2 wasn't NA.
And so on and so on and so on.
It's tough realizing at a certain age, 56 here, that the next generation of every product outside of Depends Diapers, isn't being developed for us. The 20-30 year old's might not (big assumption that can easily be debated) be buying 911s today but developing products that they aspire to is what is going to keep every manufacturer in business.
Wasn't it the end of the world when water cooled came around?
The 992 was too big.
The 991 was too big.
The 991.2 wasn't NA.
And so on and so on and so on.
It's tough realizing at a certain age, 56 here, that the next generation of every product outside of Depends Diapers, isn't being developed for us. The 20-30 year old's might not (big assumption that can easily be debated) be buying 911s today but developing products that they aspire to is what is going to keep every manufacturer in business.
06-10-2024, 01:28 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
This is a very well written and romantic post but the reality is Porsche is not targeting 20-30 year olds. Since you are 25, you might believe life is based on what you see on social media and that covers the full spectrum There are 30,000 actual Porsche 911 buyer for every one or two influencer you see with a 911 GT3.
The 911 is going into a completely different price point with the 992.2. Lamborghini, as an example, sold about 3-4 thousands sports cars (non-SUV) worldwide. The 911 alone sold over 40,000 units globally. No sane company will market their 911 to 20-30 year olds that have an average income of less than $100K. The economics are just not there.
This is why the 911 average age is in the 50s. Not because old people love them, is that it is very difficult to afford a $150K car in your 20s. We do see more and more people in their 30s and 40s owning 911s as this new digital economy has allowed alternate and non-traditional income streams to this new generation, but Porsche strategy for the 911 is not 20-30 year olds. That’s what the Macan and 718 is for.
The digital dash and the push-bottom is the result of the organic modernization of vehicles. It’s a natural progression. That’s why BMW lost its iconic hood, the center door lock button amongst other things.
The 911 will remain a 911. Everyone said the same thing about the 997 when the 991 came out. When the 992 came out “it was too big for a Porsche! OMG!” Now people say the 992.1 is the best Porsche and will go down in history as the last non-digital.
I personally do not understand why remove such an iconic feature that does not seem to significantly reduce cost and doesn’t seem to be a mandatory requirement for the hybrid system. But only Porsche knows, for now.
But I’m in my late 30s and I do not make average income for my age. Our households is in the 7-figures. Most 30 year olds are mid low 6-figures and nowadays that’s not sufficient in most cases to justify a 911 price-wise.
The 911 is going into a completely different price point with the 992.2. Lamborghini, as an example, sold about 3-4 thousands sports cars (non-SUV) worldwide. The 911 alone sold over 40,000 units globally. No sane company will market their 911 to 20-30 year olds that have an average income of less than $100K. The economics are just not there.
This is why the 911 average age is in the 50s. Not because old people love them, is that it is very difficult to afford a $150K car in your 20s. We do see more and more people in their 30s and 40s owning 911s as this new digital economy has allowed alternate and non-traditional income streams to this new generation, but Porsche strategy for the 911 is not 20-30 year olds. That’s what the Macan and 718 is for.
The digital dash and the push-bottom is the result of the organic modernization of vehicles. It’s a natural progression. That’s why BMW lost its iconic hood, the center door lock button amongst other things.
The 911 will remain a 911. Everyone said the same thing about the 997 when the 991 came out. When the 992 came out “it was too big for a Porsche! OMG!” Now people say the 992.1 is the best Porsche and will go down in history as the last non-digital.
I personally do not understand why remove such an iconic feature that does not seem to significantly reduce cost and doesn’t seem to be a mandatory requirement for the hybrid system. But only Porsche knows, for now.
But I’m in my late 30s and I do not make average income for my age. Our households is in the 7-figures. Most 30 year olds are mid low 6-figures and nowadays that’s not sufficient in most cases to justify a 911 price-wise.
To the point of the Op. The Base car is a modern 911 but it is anything but traditional . My first Porsche I was 25 (your age..a 944 Turbo ) and my first 911 at 35 . I am now 66 and even tough the new car is a fantastic vehicle it has lost some of the quirky charm of the past , Go sit in a 993 and drive it , The five dials , practically bare dash, lack of any technology, offset pedals , 6 speed manual., and sound of the air cooled engine will give you a pause . The car really had charm . The new car is fast and more sophisticated but you might have to think long and hard which was more fun to drive .
06-10-2024, 01:34 PM
#28
06-10-2024, 01:44 PM
#29
This would make sense if the most tech 911 was top of the food chain but they are not.
The most sought after 911s are the most analog with least amount of tech - these are the GT3, GT3 Touring, Sport Classic and 911 S/T. The GT3RS which does have a lot of tech for aero and handling is geared for track use.
This is what BMW M did with their brand - went all tech and gimmicks. There is no coming back from that.
Unfortunately young ppl are most amazed at dumb LCD screen with some games in the car than the steering feel or other inputs of driving.
I don’t mind Porsche focusing on luxury/tech 911 consumer - that is where S and Turbo models should be for. I wish they would offer more analog models that were attainable in the main Carrera lineup not just GT cars.
The most sought after 911s are the most analog with least amount of tech - these are the GT3, GT3 Touring, Sport Classic and 911 S/T. The GT3RS which does have a lot of tech for aero and handling is geared for track use.
This is what BMW M did with their brand - went all tech and gimmicks. There is no coming back from that.
Unfortunately young ppl are most amazed at dumb LCD screen with some games in the car than the steering feel or other inputs of driving.
I don’t mind Porsche focusing on luxury/tech 911 consumer - that is where S and Turbo models should be for. I wish they would offer more analog models that were attainable in the main Carrera lineup not just GT cars.
Last edited by R N M; 06-10-2024 at 01:50 PM.
06-10-2024, 01:53 PM
#30
This would make sense if the most tech 911 was top of the food chain but they are not.
The most sought after 911s are the most analog with least amount of tech - these are the GT3, GT3 Touring, Sport Classic and 911 S/T. The GT3RS which does have a lot of tech for aero and handling is geared for track use.
This is what BMW M did with their brand - went all tech and gimmicks. There is no coming back from that.
Unfortunately young ppl are most amazed at dumb LCD screen with some games in the car than the steering feel or other inputs of driving.
The most sought after 911s are the most analog with least amount of tech - these are the GT3, GT3 Touring, Sport Classic and 911 S/T. The GT3RS which does have a lot of tech for aero and handling is geared for track use.
This is what BMW M did with their brand - went all tech and gimmicks. There is no coming back from that.
Unfortunately young ppl are most amazed at dumb LCD screen with some games in the car than the steering feel or other inputs of driving.
But the hype for these cars is beyond what the average RL user can imagine and I'd say currently it's most millennials' "attainable" dream car meaning when they start getting money to be able to afford one they will buy it regardless of the tech.
I think the new BMW M3 and M2 are great cars they were a decent success and they are probably going to age well.
I hope that the T will offer the analog model that you're looking for!
Last edited by net; 06-10-2024 at 01:55 PM.