Consumer shift in demand. Why the 992.2 is better?
06-15-2024, 01:16 PM
#151
This is a very well written and romantic post but the reality is Porsche is not targeting 20-30 year olds. Since you are 25, you might believe life is based on what you see on social media and that covers the full spectrum There are 30,000 actual Porsche 911 buyer for every one or two influencer you see with a 911 GT3.
The 911 is going into a completely different price point with the 992.2. Lamborghini, as an example, sold about 3-4 thousands sports cars (non-SUV) worldwide. The 911 alone sold over 40,000 units globally. No sane company will market their 911 to 20-30 year olds that have an average income of less than $100K. The economics are just not there.
This is why the 911 average age is in the 50s. Not because old people love them, is that it is very difficult to afford a $150K car in your 20s. We do see more and more people in their 30s and 40s owning 911s as this new digital economy has allowed alternate and non-traditional income streams to this new generation, but Porsche strategy for the 911 is not 20-30 year olds. That’s what the Macan and 718 is for.
The digital dash and the push-bottom is the result of the organic modernization of vehicles. It’s a natural progression. That’s why BMW lost its iconic hood, the center door lock button amongst other things.
The 911 will remain a 911. Everyone said the same thing about the 997 when the 991 came out. When the 992 came out “it was too big for a Porsche! OMG!” Now people say the 992.1 is the best Porsche and will go down in history as the last non-digital.
I personally do not understand why remove such an iconic feature that does not seem to significantly reduce cost and doesn’t seem to be a mandatory requirement for the hybrid system. But only Porsche knows, for now.
But I’m in my late 30s and I do not make average income for my age. Our households is in the 7-figures. Most 30 year olds are mid low 6-figures and nowadays that’s not sufficient in most cases to justify a 911 price-wise.
The 911 is going into a completely different price point with the 992.2. Lamborghini, as an example, sold about 3-4 thousands sports cars (non-SUV) worldwide. The 911 alone sold over 40,000 units globally. No sane company will market their 911 to 20-30 year olds that have an average income of less than $100K. The economics are just not there.
This is why the 911 average age is in the 50s. Not because old people love them, is that it is very difficult to afford a $150K car in your 20s. We do see more and more people in their 30s and 40s owning 911s as this new digital economy has allowed alternate and non-traditional income streams to this new generation, but Porsche strategy for the 911 is not 20-30 year olds. That’s what the Macan and 718 is for.
The digital dash and the push-bottom is the result of the organic modernization of vehicles. It’s a natural progression. That’s why BMW lost its iconic hood, the center door lock button amongst other things.
The 911 will remain a 911. Everyone said the same thing about the 997 when the 991 came out. When the 992 came out “it was too big for a Porsche! OMG!” Now people say the 992.1 is the best Porsche and will go down in history as the last non-digital.
I personally do not understand why remove such an iconic feature that does not seem to significantly reduce cost and doesn’t seem to be a mandatory requirement for the hybrid system. But only Porsche knows, for now.
But I’m in my late 30s and I do not make average income for my age. Our households is in the 7-figures. Most 30 year olds are mid low 6-figures and nowadays that’s not sufficient in most cases to justify a 911 price-wise.
06-15-2024, 02:24 PM
#152
06-15-2024, 02:46 PM
#153
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When you’ve got a quarter million cash to blow on a car, that maintenance isn’t a big deal. It’s not a coupon clipping “budget” decision. It’s a “how do I want to spend $250k on a toy?” question.
It’s not like 992.2 hybrid maintenance is going to be cheap either.
That used Ferrari will experience less depreciation than a brand new hybrid 911 and net-net, be cheaper to own. I’d rather be selling/trading in a used Ferrari than a used 911 hybrid that enthusiasts do not want.
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McNamara (06-16-2024)
06-15-2024, 02:58 PM
#154
Counterpoint:
When you’ve got a quarter million cash to blow on a car, that maintenance isn’t a big deal. It’s not a coupon clipping “budget” decision. It’s a “how do I want to spend $250k on a toy?” question.
It’s not like 992.2 hybrid maintenance is going to be cheap either.
That used Ferrari will experience less depreciation than a brand new hybrid 911 and net-net, be cheaper to own. I’d rather be selling/trading in a used Ferrari than a used 911 hybrid that enthusiasts do not want.
When you’ve got a quarter million cash to blow on a car, that maintenance isn’t a big deal. It’s not a coupon clipping “budget” decision. It’s a “how do I want to spend $250k on a toy?” question.
It’s not like 992.2 hybrid maintenance is going to be cheap either.
That used Ferrari will experience less depreciation than a brand new hybrid 911 and net-net, be cheaper to own. I’d rather be selling/trading in a used Ferrari than a used 911 hybrid that enthusiasts do not want.
Don't most modern Ferraris, even non-hybrid models, also have lithium batteries? From what I recall, Lussos, Portofinos and Romas don't exactly have great resale values. You'd have to be in lower optioned 488 territory which would be the only ones in the $250K-$300K range. Best bang for the buck would be 360/430 cars if you are okay with that era of interior creature comforts or lack thereof.
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detansinn (06-15-2024)
06-15-2024, 04:46 PM
#155
Counter counter point. We don't really know what the maintenance on a hybrid 992.2 will be. We know the lithium battery won't be cheap whenever it comes due for replacement but aside from that, what other extra maintenance are you foreseeing for a car with fewer mechanical parts?
Don't most modern Ferraris, even non-hybrid models, also have lithium batteries? From what I recall, Lussos, Portofinos and Romas don't exactly have great resale values. You'd have to be in lower optioned 488 territory which would be the only ones in the $250K-$300K range. Best bang for the buck would be 360/430 cars if you are okay with that era of interior creature comforts or lack thereof.
Don't most modern Ferraris, even non-hybrid models, also have lithium batteries? From what I recall, Lussos, Portofinos and Romas don't exactly have great resale values. You'd have to be in lower optioned 488 territory which would be the only ones in the $250K-$300K range. Best bang for the buck would be 360/430 cars if you are okay with that era of interior creature comforts or lack thereof.
430's are chains
Not cheap std maintenance at all
06-15-2024, 04:58 PM
#156
Counterpoint:
When you’ve got a quarter million cash to blow on a car, that maintenance isn’t a big deal. It’s not a coupon clipping “budget” decision. It’s a “how do I want to spend $250k on a toy?” question.
It’s not like 992.2 hybrid maintenance is going to be cheap either.
That used Ferrari will experience less depreciation than a brand new hybrid 911 and net-net, be cheaper to own. I’d rather be selling/trading in a used Ferrari than a used 911 hybrid that enthusiasts do not want.
When you’ve got a quarter million cash to blow on a car, that maintenance isn’t a big deal. It’s not a coupon clipping “budget” decision. It’s a “how do I want to spend $250k on a toy?” question.
It’s not like 992.2 hybrid maintenance is going to be cheap either.
That used Ferrari will experience less depreciation than a brand new hybrid 911 and net-net, be cheaper to own. I’d rather be selling/trading in a used Ferrari than a used 911 hybrid that enthusiasts do not want.
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AlexCeres (06-15-2024)
06-15-2024, 04:59 PM
#157
But correct, still not cheap standard maintenance. Also, put 20K miles on a Ferrari and there is a steep depreciation whereas 20K on a Porsche is no biggie. In general, many modern Ferraris are better "investments" so long as you don't really drive them.
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AlexCeres (06-15-2024)
06-15-2024, 06:40 PM
#158
“Budget” and “supercar” aren’t a great combo. For folks who really want that, I’d be inclined to suggest depreciation insurance aka lease. it’s not about saving the most money, but having the most consistent expense to be able to budget around at all. Out of warranty used supercars have tons of fantastic character, soul and nostalgia. But also the most unpleasant surprises. There’s nothing quite like having a loan on a supercar but being unable to get a replacement part and being both unable to drive it and unable to sell it but still owing the loan with basically no underlying asset until the repairs are done months later.
There are several reasons why nearly all supercar owners have multiple cars. But being able to shrug off setbacks like that, or multiple engine out maintenance, is kind of the small blind for playing in that league at all.
There are several reasons why nearly all supercar owners have multiple cars. But being able to shrug off setbacks like that, or multiple engine out maintenance, is kind of the small blind for playing in that league at all.
06-16-2024, 12:08 AM
#160
Instructor
That's obvious. Moreover the vast majority of 30 - 40yo making significant six figure incomes are physicians, most of whom don't finish training until at least a few years into their 30s.
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CZS (06-16-2024)
06-16-2024, 02:35 AM
#162
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06-16-2024, 07:52 AM
#164
Lolz. Average salary across the US ? You guys are hilarious. Porsche doesn’t care about 30 yro flipping burgers in Idaho. They care about 30 yro who can afford $150k cars. So we don’t care about average, especially nation wide.
Top 1% of 30-34 have 2.4+ million in assets. There are over 200,000 such people, those 4 years of age alone, in the US. Porsche will be okay selling to them too. Wealth accumulation at the top 10% in that age range isn’t super impressive but the top 2-5% could easily afford an 911. Also, most of them aren’t doctors. 1970s would like their advice back.
literally millions of people in the 30-39 bracket who can afford this. America is huge, and the density of wealth is unevenly concentrated. Don’t go hurting yourself with statistics
And yes, the median age of a 911 customer is in their 50s pulling down mid to high six figures.
Top 1% of 30-34 have 2.4+ million in assets. There are over 200,000 such people, those 4 years of age alone, in the US. Porsche will be okay selling to them too. Wealth accumulation at the top 10% in that age range isn’t super impressive but the top 2-5% could easily afford an 911. Also, most of them aren’t doctors. 1970s would like their advice back.
literally millions of people in the 30-39 bracket who can afford this. America is huge, and the density of wealth is unevenly concentrated. Don’t go hurting yourself with statistics
And yes, the median age of a 911 customer is in their 50s pulling down mid to high six figures.
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CodyBigdog (06-22-2024)
06-16-2024, 08:56 AM
#165
Ferrari has an extended warranty for 7 years so even if it's a 2017 model it would still be covered under warranty I would only have to worry about annual maintenance which is going to be around $5500 max a year.