Nick Murray on the T: Less is More
Racer
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 321
Likes: 196
The shorter shifter in the T looks insanely good in Nicks video. That’s one more thing that makes the manual more special than the PDK as far as the T goes in my opinion. I don’t think that shifter is even an option on the S but the GTS gets it.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,333
Likes: 3,741
From: Newport Beach, CA and Melbourne, Australia
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,333
Likes: 3,741
From: Newport Beach, CA and Melbourne, Australia
T vs S: T has more noise, mechanical diff, MT with Sports Chrono, S has more HP, more a grand tourer, interesting to see MT vs PDK uptake in each model, I am sure T is more MT and S more PDK, people just looking for different experiences, price diff not that great, only about 10-20K, peanuts
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 6,035
Likes: 8,001
From: Ohio
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,273
Likes: 6,729
You can always install a Numeric SSK. Better than either OEM option.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 1,304
From: Chicago
he also said the Turbo can be boring - and most reviewers kind of agree with that.
4) the 7 speed manual -- He loves it and I feel there are several problems with it . There are also positives too but since this is the disagreement area I will point out what I dont like . A manual transmission when mated to a turbo engine loses boost on every upshift and PDK does not . Have so many gears makes 3, 5, and 7 too much in those upper ranges . People get used to it but its not great . 992 gearing was designed as an 8 speed (exception Gt car ) making longer gears as well. I still would consider getting it on a T but its not perfect .
Last edited by doug_999; Jun 4, 2023 at 09:13 AM.
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
Every Era of 911 Owner Explained in One Sentence
Verdad Gallardo
Thinking of Buying a Porsche? Do These 10 Things First
Joe Kucinski
Pixar Pals Turned Into 1-of-1 Porsches!
Michael S. Palmer
Theon Goes Full Carbon Fiber With Stunning New Build
Verdad Gallardo
Genius Porsche-Themed Gifts That'll Make Any Dad or Grad Smile
Joe Kucinski
10 Used Porsches Are Selling for Way Too Cheap
Joe Kucinski
Tuner Is Converting Porsche 911s Into Shooting Brakes
Verdad Gallardo
This Coachbuilt Creation Is A Modern Take on the Legendary Porsche 917
Verdad Gallardo
Is This Convertible Cayenne A Steal, Or A Returnless Investment?
Verdad Gallardo
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 1,140
From: South Florida
You missed out on some good stuff.
They are not available on the Base, S, or GTS either
So overblown in the real world - none of us are going to have their lap time improved with a CF roof. But our pockets will certainly have less money in them. Buy it cause you like the look, not cause "it saves weight up top"
he said "Living with the GT3 day to day is no fun" and cited Chris Harris as saying that as well.
he also said the Turbo can be boring - and most reviewers kind of agree with that.
Pretty cool that Porsche still makes the manual available. Nobody with a manual thinks it is a faster trans than the PDK or that the 992. And all will agree that the 992 was designed for the PDK. But those of us who spec it, do it because we enjoy rowing our own. I know that some day they will no longer be available, but until then, each car I order will have a manual - if available. In short Nick is saying "this is a great manual trans and we are lucky to be able to get a car with it"
They are not available on the Base, S, or GTS either
So overblown in the real world - none of us are going to have their lap time improved with a CF roof. But our pockets will certainly have less money in them. Buy it cause you like the look, not cause "it saves weight up top"
he said "Living with the GT3 day to day is no fun" and cited Chris Harris as saying that as well.
he also said the Turbo can be boring - and most reviewers kind of agree with that.
Pretty cool that Porsche still makes the manual available. Nobody with a manual thinks it is a faster trans than the PDK or that the 992. And all will agree that the 992 was designed for the PDK. But those of us who spec it, do it because we enjoy rowing our own. I know that some day they will no longer be available, but until then, each car I order will have a manual - if available. In short Nick is saying "this is a great manual trans and we are lucky to be able to get a car with it"
2) I have PCCB on my 992 GTS
3) Cf roof is not about lap time . Its about maximizing the build in the direction of performance . That is Porsche strength.
4) I didnt say "living the a Gt3" as a daily . In fact it was my reason not to buy one . I wanted my 911 every day . Had it been a part time car that would have been different .
5) Both PDK and manual are world class . I am not an either or guy . I like both equally. I pick what works best for that car and a turbo engine mates better with a PDK . A person cant money shift in a PDK either so it also preserves the engine . The manual on the other hand is cheaper to replace if kept long term and transmission becomes an issue post warranty . Kit also has a different level of engagement . The point is a person can only pick one . On every turbo model I would pick PDK . NA cars would be a tough decision . Since the T makes the base exclusive with a manual it does tilt the scale . I call it a tie . Not sure what I would pick if I were buying. T but I dont want to buy a T so its not my choice to make.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 1,592
From: St. Louis, MO
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 1,140
From: South Florida
I agree not to do it but the fact that Porsche has your back in the PDK is great feature of engine preservation . If I were shopping manual cars on the used market I would want the over rev history scanned , No need to do this with PDK.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 1,304
From: Chicago
Nor should you - but you missed out on some good content.
No longer avail - maybe they will come back?. But not to start a PCCB vs.Reg brake comment section, it might be the most overpriced under performing option per dollar available on the 992.
While Porsche has a few options (or used to) to help with this, let's be real, the options are skewed towards comfort, looks, and individual buyer tastes - with very very few being about performance (leather fuse cover box anyone?). But their strength is far from maximizing the build in the direction of performance. Is that a tag line I missed?
No longer avail - maybe they will come back?. But not to start a PCCB vs.Reg brake comment section, it might be the most overpriced under performing option per dollar available on the 992.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 875
Likes: 565
I had stopped watching Nick's videos after the he bashed a GTS before it was even launched . I decided to watch this one and happen to agree with some of it . He did leave out a few things .
Agree with -
1) Great first 911 in that it does offer a nice package for the price .
2) Like the concept of a lighter 911 .
3) Manual transmission makes it an exclusive Base car .
4) Wheels , mirrors , interior package make it unique . I have not seen one on the road .
5) Detest the painted interior .. Carbon fiber not an option .
Theres probably more but that's just a few .
Disagree with or omitted --
1) How could he not mention the brakes ? They are regular base steel brakes and PCCB was an option on the last T .
2) Disagree on the roof - A "squirrel eating cheesecake" omits the location of the weight savings . Its directly in the center of mass .
3) He doesn't like the Gt3 or Turbo S -- FOR HIM !!!! He needs to say that . The reason why Porsche offers many variants is because appeal differs with different buyers ,
4) the 7 speed manual -- He loves it and I feel there are several problems with it . There are also positives too but since this is the disagreement area I will point out what I dont like . A manual transmission when mated to a turbo engine loses boost on every upshift and PDK does not . Have so many gears makes 3, 5, and 7 too much in those upper ranges . People get used to it but its not great . 992 gearing was designed as an 8 speed (exception Gt car ) making longer gears as well. I still would consider getting it on a T but its not perfect .
Agree with -
1) Great first 911 in that it does offer a nice package for the price .
2) Like the concept of a lighter 911 .
3) Manual transmission makes it an exclusive Base car .
4) Wheels , mirrors , interior package make it unique . I have not seen one on the road .
5) Detest the painted interior .. Carbon fiber not an option .
Theres probably more but that's just a few .
Disagree with or omitted --
1) How could he not mention the brakes ? They are regular base steel brakes and PCCB was an option on the last T .
2) Disagree on the roof - A "squirrel eating cheesecake" omits the location of the weight savings . Its directly in the center of mass .
3) He doesn't like the Gt3 or Turbo S -- FOR HIM !!!! He needs to say that . The reason why Porsche offers many variants is because appeal differs with different buyers ,
4) the 7 speed manual -- He loves it and I feel there are several problems with it . There are also positives too but since this is the disagreement area I will point out what I dont like . A manual transmission when mated to a turbo engine loses boost on every upshift and PDK does not . Have so many gears makes 3, 5, and 7 too much in those upper ranges . People get used to it but its not great . 992 gearing was designed as an 8 speed (exception Gt car ) making longer gears as well. I still would consider getting it on a T but its not perfect .
On the “he needs to say that” point, he’s a guy on YouTube offering his opinions, who is always at pains to say that people should get what they want, and that his opinion is just one random Kiwi’s ramblings. How anyone can watch his videos and not see this is beyond me.
Not to blow up this thread even more, but I love Nick Murray even though I don’t agree with everything he says. He has never set himself up as some egomaniacal arbiter of Porsche truths. People these days have been conditioned to think of conflicting opinions as insults. No wonder our political climate is so toxic and weaponized if we can’t even handle someone disagreeing about an option choice on a sports car.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 873
Likes: 456
From: Florida
Please tell us about this magical place where you can redline, I'll make this easy, on 3rd because the roads are so perfect, the traffic non existent, and the cops absent? I'd love to move there. If you buy a dual purpose car that you plan to track regularly, I understand. But if you're buying a car that will be max'd out on back roads and your not a professional driver, anyone claiming that 350-400HP is not enough is fooling themselves. That or perhaps if you're a stop light racer, but you sound like you're at least in your 30s. I'd love for someone to correct me but there is no highway in the US where you can dp 150+ MPH and not either put someone at risk or go to jail.
Same as above, where are you using all of your 911s power that is not the track? In third you're doing 110mph. In fourth you're doing 150mph. You still have three gears to go. Where in the US are you achieving these speeds with frequency? Unless at the track, you're most definitely not using all the power of an S. Maybe even a base. But you're absolutely right. Power is not the end all. Fun is, and despite most people's misconceptions, fun and power are not always correlated.
There are a number of cars, mostly American muscle, that have far more HP than a base 911 and are far, far cheaper and I don't see anyone here cross shopping them with any Carrera. I have a GT3. I've been tracking for 20 years, I live a 30min drive from empty canyon roads and the police are non existent (Mexico!) and I can't use more than 400HP on the street/canyons. In fact, 350HP would suffice.
When people voice their "need" for 500HP, all I hear is they don't know how to wring out the power out of a 200HP car, never mind 500HP or more.
Same as above, where are you using all of your 911s power that is not the track? In third you're doing 110mph. In fourth you're doing 150mph. You still have three gears to go. Where in the US are you achieving these speeds with frequency? Unless at the track, you're most definitely not using all the power of an S. Maybe even a base. But you're absolutely right. Power is not the end all. Fun is, and despite most people's misconceptions, fun and power are not always correlated.
There are a number of cars, mostly American muscle, that have far more HP than a base 911 and are far, far cheaper and I don't see anyone here cross shopping them with any Carrera. I have a GT3. I've been tracking for 20 years, I live a 30min drive from empty canyon roads and the police are non existent (Mexico!) and I can't use more than 400HP on the street/canyons. In fact, 350HP would suffice.
When people voice their "need" for 500HP, all I hear is they don't know how to wring out the power out of a 200HP car, never mind 500HP or more.
I have suffered a case of car attention deficit syndrome (CADS) over the past 3-4 years. I think I got it out of my system? Perhaps, not so much CADS as it was a condensed pursuit of visceral driving machines?
I moved from a 718 GTS . . . F87C . . . G80C . . . 718 GT4 over approximately the past 3-4 years. All daily drivers. The sporty ///M cars and Porsche sport cars truly amazing works of performance engineering. However, I came to gain a great deal of frustration associated with the limitations imposed by the common roadways when it came to trying to engage these visceral and highly potent driving machines.
Going from 0 to jail time in 4 seconds, then braking . . . gets old quickly. Wringing out the engine allows you to enjoy the acoustics but, again, rarely getting out of 2nd gear gets old too.
The reality, as you state, is that we rarely get to unbridle these racehorses on the common roadways. Even living in a rural area in central Florida, there is nearly always traffic; there are always stoplights; there is never a speed limit above 55mph . . . and if none of these existed, you never know when the police are sitting behind the next corner.
Within the past couple months, or so, I traded my GT4 in for 23’ Macan GTS. Honestly, my daily driving has not been so enjoyable in years. . . first-world problems, for sure.
I have absolutely no doubt the Carrera T is a wonderful sport car. Given the roadway realities discussed, however, it would serve less utility or not provide any more driving satisfaction than my Macan GTS at this point.
Avera
EDIT
PERSONALLY, I do not enjoy storing a second car in the garage for weekend excursions or when seasonal weather permits. I like to daily drive whatever car I own. Also, I am not a tracker . . . I could understand owning one of these visceral driving machines if one does enjoy 'special' driving occasions.
Last edited by Avera; Jun 4, 2023 at 12:01 PM.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 1,304
From: Chicago
On the “he needs to say that” point, he’s a guy on YouTube offering his opinions, who is always at pains to say that people should get what they want, and that his opinion is just one random Kiwi’s ramblings. How anyone can watch his videos and not see this is beyond me.
Not to blow up this thread even more, but I love Nick Murray even though I don’t agree with everything he says. He has never set himself up as some egomaniacal arbiter of Porsche truths. People these days have been conditioned to think of conflicting opinions as insults. No wonder our political climate is so toxic and weaponized if we can’t even handle someone disagreeing about an option choice on a sports car.
Not to blow up this thread even more, but I love Nick Murray even though I don’t agree with everything he says. He has never set himself up as some egomaniacal arbiter of Porsche truths. People these days have been conditioned to think of conflicting opinions as insults. No wonder our political climate is so toxic and weaponized if we can’t even handle someone disagreeing about an option choice on a sports car.
Hey Doug
Congratulations my friend. That is indeed a very sharp combo with the seats, I just can not believe more people do not do that. Every other 911 will look dull next to yours.
I am shocked and horrified that you got the puddle lights but I am confident that just like everyone else I know that got them in time you will see the error of your ways and put electrical tape over them to hide your shame!!
Thank you for the support of my channel, all the best with your new car
Nick
