Lots of info on 992.2 and future in CAR magazine
06-22-2023, 05:29 PM
#76
Drifting
I don't see how the electric assist can "replace" the turbos, because the batteries aren't charged all the time to allow them to operate - especially if the pack is small to save weight/space. The displacement increase isn't going to make up for that, you'll end up with a car that's slower most of the time, until the pack charges and you can get a time period of meaningful assist out of the electric motors.
06-22-2023, 05:36 PM
#77
Burning Brakes
I don't see how the electric assist can "replace" the turbos, because the batteries aren't charged all the time to allow them to operate - especially if the pack is small to save weight/space. The displacement increase isn't going to make up for that, you'll end up with a car that's slower most of the time, until the pack charges and you can get a time period of meaningful assist out of the electric motors.
I really don't think 911 owners want to be replacing batteries every 5 years, especially when even these small, custom battery packs are $10k. Heck, the Lithium Ion battery in the 992 is an obscene $2,500. I'm glad I have a 992.1 on the way... Lithium Ion battery equipped and all.
06-22-2023, 05:56 PM
#78
Look at any hybrid….the batteries are guaranteed for at least 10 years…with the extreme being many taxi cab drivers, who use hybrids, have 200k-300k on their original battery.
Point being - battery capacity does degrade over time/mileage, but it’s not a precipitous drop off.
06-22-2023, 06:01 PM
#79
Burning Brakes
That’s nonsense.
Look at any hybrid….the batteries are guaranteed for at least 10 years…with the extreme being many taxi cab drivers, who use hybrids, have 200k-300k on their original battery.
Point being - battery capacity does degrade over time/mileage, but it’s not a precipitous drop off.
Look at any hybrid….the batteries are guaranteed for at least 10 years…with the extreme being many taxi cab drivers, who use hybrids, have 200k-300k on their original battery.
Point being - battery capacity does degrade over time/mileage, but it’s not a precipitous drop off.
06-22-2023, 06:05 PM
#80
Those cars have larger packs than is being rumored for the 992.2. Smaller packs mean more charge/discharges = more degradation. I'm not saying it will happen, we have no idea what Porsche has planned. But that's one reason I stayed far away from the new Benz C63 very small battery with quick discharge/charge.
It won;’t happen. 100% sure.
I have many “small” lithium batteries i use for various things…from lawn equipment to electronics…and all still going strong after 4-5 year of regular use.
The key to prolonging any battery is the charging cycle…ie, don’t deplete to 0%….which no modern hybrid does.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-22-2023 at 06:07 PM.
06-23-2023, 01:03 AM
#81
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I don't see how the electric assist can "replace" the turbos, because the batteries aren't charged all the time to allow them to operate - especially if the pack is small to save weight/space. The displacement increase isn't going to make up for that, you'll end up with a car that's slower most of the time, until the pack charges and you can get a time period of meaningful assist out of the electric motors.
Mild hybrid systems in BMW would work just fine in the 992.2.
06-23-2023, 09:58 AM
#82
There are two types of hybrid cars. One is non-plug-in, which have smaller batteries and smaller electric motors, and traditionally, provide no electrical assist to the gas engine at speeds much over 30 mph. Then there are plug-in hybrids, that have bigger batteries and bigger electric motors that can run for moderate distances, under all electric propulsion, at highway speeds.
The non-plug-in hybrids are recharged solely from the gas engine and regeneration from the brakes. The battery is never depleted to 0%, but automatically calls to be re-charged, from the engine, when the SOC reaches 10-20%.
Both forms of hybrids can help with the initial acceleration from the start, although with the bigger battery and bigger electric motors, the plug-in version will provide more electrical assistance, for higher speeds and longer duration, to the gas engine.
The non-plug-in hybrids are recharged solely from the gas engine and regeneration from the brakes. The battery is never depleted to 0%, but automatically calls to be re-charged, from the engine, when the SOC reaches 10-20%.
Both forms of hybrids can help with the initial acceleration from the start, although with the bigger battery and bigger electric motors, the plug-in version will provide more electrical assistance, for higher speeds and longer duration, to the gas engine.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-23-2023 at 10:01 AM.
06-23-2023, 12:03 PM
#83
Instructor
Do Porsche follow a timeline for when they unveil real info on the next generation ? So far we’re mostly getting opinions based on “leaked” photos and videos which seems to be regurgitated from one source to the next.
06-23-2023, 12:06 PM
#84
Drifting
The BMW X5 PHEV weighs 5,672 pounds, not to compare to a 911 but just as an example as to the amount of weight these hybrid systems can add. And forget about regen brakes, those add a lot of weight, I believe previous threads on this topic indicated the the 911 hybrid will not include regen brakes - too heavy. Plug-in is also too heavy, and no one wants to plug their 911 in anyway.
06-23-2023, 12:35 PM
#85
Instructor
....
Not too long ago, Porsche was hoping that an increase in displacement from 3.0 to 3.4 litres would more than compensate for all the mandatory pending clean-air actions,
But it now seems 3.6 litres is a safer bet.
Dubbed 9A3 Evo, the new mainstay powerplant is expected to develop 40obhp and 347lb ft in the two- and four-wheel-drive Carreras (up from 38obhp and 332lb ft), 454bhp and 406lb ft in the best-selling Carrera S cars (up from 444bhp and 39ilb ft), and circa 483bhp and 413lb ft in the Carrera GTSs (up from 473bhp, but with peak torque down from 420lb ft).
Currently rated at 503bhp and 518bhp, we expect the output of the more thoroughly de-smogged GT3 units to increase only very slightly to around 508bhp for the GT/touring and 520-525bhp for the GT3 RS. Last but not least, there are the Turbo and the Turbo S, both of which should feature the latest 9A3 flat-six engine. The Weissach grapevine is suggesting 612bhp and 583lb ft for the Turbo (up from 572bhp and 553lb ft) and 68obhp and 5981b ft (up from 64Ibhp and 590lb ft) for the hard-charging S....
Not too long ago, Porsche was hoping that an increase in displacement from 3.0 to 3.4 litres would more than compensate for all the mandatory pending clean-air actions,
But it now seems 3.6 litres is a safer bet.
Dubbed 9A3 Evo, the new mainstay powerplant is expected to develop 40obhp and 347lb ft in the two- and four-wheel-drive Carreras (up from 38obhp and 332lb ft), 454bhp and 406lb ft in the best-selling Carrera S cars (up from 444bhp and 39ilb ft), and circa 483bhp and 413lb ft in the Carrera GTSs (up from 473bhp, but with peak torque down from 420lb ft).
Currently rated at 503bhp and 518bhp, we expect the output of the more thoroughly de-smogged GT3 units to increase only very slightly to around 508bhp for the GT/touring and 520-525bhp for the GT3 RS. Last but not least, there are the Turbo and the Turbo S, both of which should feature the latest 9A3 flat-six engine. The Weissach grapevine is suggesting 612bhp and 583lb ft for the Turbo (up from 572bhp and 553lb ft) and 68obhp and 5981b ft (up from 64Ibhp and 590lb ft) for the hard-charging S....
Disappointing but I am confident Porsche will still make that engine exciting. Perhaps more intake sound?
06-23-2023, 09:19 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
There are two types of hybrid cars. One is non-plug-in, which have smaller batteries and smaller electric motors, and traditionally, provide no electrical assist to the gas engine at speeds much over 30 mph. Then there are plug-in hybrids, that have bigger batteries and bigger electric motors that can run for moderate distances, under all electric propulsion, at highway speeds.
The non-plug-in hybrids are recharged solely from the gas engine and regeneration from the brakes. The battery is never depleted to 0%, but automatically calls to be re-charged, from the engine, when the SOC reaches 10-20%.
Both forms of hybrids can help with the initial acceleration from the start, although with the bigger battery and bigger electric motors, the plug-in version will provide more electrical assistance, for higher speeds and longer duration, to the gas engine.
The non-plug-in hybrids are recharged solely from the gas engine and regeneration from the brakes. The battery is never depleted to 0%, but automatically calls to be re-charged, from the engine, when the SOC reaches 10-20%.
Both forms of hybrids can help with the initial acceleration from the start, although with the bigger battery and bigger electric motors, the plug-in version will provide more electrical assistance, for higher speeds and longer duration, to the gas engine.
They will most likely be 'mild-hybrids' with an even smaller battery and no electric motors at all. A starter/generator in the PDK would handle smooth start/stop and provide supplemental torque off the line until a single turbo is making boost.
06-23-2023, 10:02 PM
#87
But neither of these types of hybrids will likely be in the Carrera range.
They will most likely be 'mild-hybrids' with an even smaller battery and no electric motors at all. A starter/generator in the PDK would handle smooth start/stop and provide supplemental torque off the line until a single turbo is making boost.
They will most likely be 'mild-hybrids' with an even smaller battery and no electric motors at all. A starter/generator in the PDK would handle smooth start/stop and provide supplemental torque off the line until a single turbo is making boost.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 06-23-2023 at 10:08 PM.
06-23-2023, 11:33 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
^ IMO it is with MB’s implementation of the system. Eliminates accessory drives and belts as well.
But we’ll see what Porsche does. They typically lead, not follow…
But we’ll see what Porsche does. They typically lead, not follow…
06-28-2023, 06:11 PM
#89
Three Wheelin'
