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Nick is no technical expert on these cars and I believe he often conveys that to his minions.
Look at many of the threads on this forum. People seeking some sort of validation of their choice….from complete strangers, no less.
Nick is just a guy who expresses his views about various Porsche’s. People are free to accept or not. I wouldn’t take anything Nick says, or anybody on this Forum, too seriously. People will find their own truth.
For those that have the M-Engineering tune, do you worry about voiding your warranty? I'M KIDDING I'M KIDDING! Please don't answer, couldn't resist. I love my C2S, does exactly what I want it to.
For those that have the M-Engineering tune, do you worry about voiding your warranty? I'M KIDDING I'M KIDDING! Please don't answer, couldn't resist. I love my C2S, does exactly what I want it to.
Sure, the GTS feels more like a natural aspirated engine, the turbo has turbo punch from low rpms. Disclaimer: I only driven a 997 turbo s so far, but I have read that the 992 turbo has more of a turbo characteristic as well.
To be completely honest I also like the turbo punch but I think that the engine characteristics of the GTS suits a manual car better and I ordered the GTS with a manual.
Manual and weight were also the reasons why I didn't get a turbo. I don't care so much about engine power (no matter how much hp I have, I always tend to think that 50hp more would be nice), fun is not a straight line. And I don't like the aggressive look of the turbo. I think the non turbo 992 are much more elegant. Btw, I think the rear on the 992s looks better than the one of the GTS.
Maybe you should try out a 992 turbo . Having ~25% more displacement, for sure it is way more torquey than the 3.0L unit found in the Carreras, but the power delivery remains very linear and it does need to be revved out to redline to extract maximum acceleration (see chart below). Lag is practically nonexistent and with the PSE it sounds very decent, not at all like the vacuum cleaners of yore. While I have not driven a GTS, I have a C2S, and the turbo feels just like a C2S on steroids. Not that different, just way more of it. The turbo does feel peppier puttering around at low revs though due to the added displacement. On my part, I do like the wider and more aggressive body of the turbo, but that is personal thing, I understand those that don't. The wider body, improved aero, wider wheels, larger brakes and stiffer S-PASM suspension is what compelled me to get the turbo over the C2S, but that was before the GTS was offered. If the GTS was offered then, it might have swayed me. For those that want three pedals, the GTS is the clear choice (over the turbo).
Sure, the GTS feels more like a natural aspirated engine,.
Point of fact: The GTS and S share the same, identical engine (same bore, stroke and displacement) and turbo. The minor bump in HP is due to software, such as found in the more significant power bump in the S from the M-Engineering tune. While the engine (larger bore and displacement) and turbo (larger, with variable vein) found in the Turbo model are different from the aforementioned siblings.
Tht said, I can’t say what “you feel”, but whatever the difference “you feel” isn’t born out in the engineering specifications.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; Oct 8, 2022 at 11:22 AM.
Many people on Rennlist, some even on this thread, are much more informed and knowledgeable than Nick Murray.
And while he may have a Youtube channel and gets (as you say) "tons of views" that doesn't make him any kind of a "key people" than anyone else here. Being popular does not make you knowledgeable about a subject. Ronald McDonalds is popular, but Thomas Keller is arguably much more informed about food and cooking.
As to Nick's thoughts and statements about future Porsche models and plans, when he says such things he is just basically being a mouthpiece for his local Porsche dealer. There's nothing wrong with that, but we should just acknowledge it.
Again, if you find Nick enjoyable that's fine and your'e entitled to your opinion.
But just understand that Nick's videos should be treated just like your daily horoscopes, for entertainment purposes only.
No, that’s like my saying that your opinions are for entertainment purposes only.
Nick Murray is sharing an opinion, as a person who has owned 911’s and test driven them for years. Why would I not take his opinion into consideration?
In my opinion—and I’ve shared this before, the GTS is not worth it. For the money you are paying, the 2S is the way to go. The GTS, especially what you have to pay for it now, just isn’t special enough for me when I can shop for more interesting cars at that price point. Now that’s just my opinion, of course, but I concur with Nick 100% on this point, because whether or not he is an entertainer, he is spot on the money.
And Nick is 100% correct when he chuckles at people who call the GTS as something “between” an S and a GT3.
I mean, seriously? My 2S was basically a GTS with slightly less braking power. And heck, even if I had not tuned it we are talking about 30 hp difference, but with my tune I was certainly driving a way more powerful car.
A GT3 is a completely different, and way more awesome product.
Maybe you should try out a 992 turbo . Having ~25% more displacement, for sure it is way more torquey than the 3.0L unit found in the Carreras, but the power delivery remains very linear and it does need to be revved out to redline to extract maximum acceleration (see chart below). Lag is practically nonexistent and with the PSE it sounds very decent, not at all like the vacuum cleaners of yore. While I have not driven a GTS, I have a C2S, and the turbo feels just like a C2S on steroids. Not that different, just way more of it. The turbo does feel peppier puttering around at low revs though due to the added displacement. On my part, I do like the wider and more aggressive body of the turbo, but that is personal thing, I understand those that don't. The wider body, improved aero, wider wheels, larger brakes and stiffer S-PASM suspension is what compelled me to get the turbo over the C2S, but that was before the GTS was offered. If the GTS was offered then, it might have swayed me. For those that want three pedals, the GTS is the clear choice (over the turbo).
Yes, looks pretty linear to me - I shouldn't trust stuff I read in the internet and have to try it : )
The 30HP bump, from the S, of the GTS is truly inconsequential. If more HP is your thing, get the S and then tune it up to around 600HP (for less than $2k). That you will feel. If better track handling is your thing, then maybe the GTS is a better choice for you? But based on a number of informal polls on here, I strongly suspect few people take their $150k-$200K car to the track, with any regularity. And even if they do, unless experienced, aren’t likely to appreciate the handling difference.
Personally, if I was primarily interested in tracking, I would go the GT4 route….with manual gear box. If I could get one. Or even an older, and much cheaper Cayman S that I wouldn’t worry about on the track.
And Nick is 100% correct when he chuckles at people who call the GTS as something “between” an S and a GT3.
A GT3 is a completely different, and way more awesome product.
I chuckle at that too. I've said it many times, in my view, the GTS is an in-between the S and the turbo. Just as it is in the rest of the Porsche lineup.
Originally Posted by Tupper
I mean, seriously? My 2S was basically a GTS with slightly less braking power. And heck, even if I had not tuned it we are talking about 30 hp difference, but with my tune I was certainly driving a way more powerful car.
There are two major technical difference that prevent an S to be a GTS: the bigger brakes and the stiffer S-PASM suspension. The power difference can be made by a simple tune, but those latter two mechanical difference require more investment to upgrade.
Point of fact: The GTS and S share the same, identical engine (same bore, stroke and displacement) and turbo. The minor bump in HP is due to software, such as found in the more significant power bump in the S from the M-Engineering tune. While the engine (larger bore and displacement) and turbo (larger, with variable vein) found in the Turbo model are different from the aforementioned siblings.
Tht said, I can’t say what “you feel”, but whatever the difference “you feel” isn’t born out in the engineering specifications.
I am going out for dinner today. I was going to get filet mignon at Ruth's Chris steak house
but I just heard Nick Murray say that a hamburger is the best food for the buck
so instead , I am going to Five Guys
Don’t bash the fillet just because you’re not going to Morton’s. 🤣
I chuckle at that too. I've said it many times, in my view, the GTS is an in-between the S and the turbo. Just as it is in the rest of the Porsche lineup.
There are two major technical difference that prevent an S to be a GTS: the bigger brakes and the stiffer S-PASM suspension. The power difference can be made by a simple tune, but those latter two mechanical difference require more investment to upgrade.
SPASM can be optioned on the S. Just the brakes and some visual stuff really is the difference. Can we consider center lock wheels a visual item or a performance item? Verdict is out on that one.
SPASM can be optioned on the S. Just the brakes and some visual stuff really is the difference. Can we consider center lock wheels a visual item or a performance item? Verdict is out on that one.
The S-PASM springs on the TT/TT-S/GTS are ~30% stiffer (40% front and 22% rear) than the ones of S-PASM on the S, with different sway bars, dampers and PASM calibration.
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. Having ~25% more displacement, for sure it is way more torquey than the 3.0L unit found in the Carreras, but the power delivery remains very linear and it does need to be revved out to redline to extract maximum acceleration (see chart below). Lag is practically nonexistent and with the PSE it sounds very decent, not at all like the vacuum cleaners of yore. While I have not driven a GTS, I have a C2S, and the turbo feels just like a C2S on steroids. Not that different, just way more of it. The turbo does feel peppier puttering around at low revs though due to the added displacement. On my part, I do like the wider and more aggressive body of the turbo, but that is personal thing, I understand those that don't. The wider body, improved aero, wider wheels, larger brakes and stiffer S-PASM suspension is what compelled me to get the turbo over the C2S, but that was before the GTS was offered. If the GTS was offered then, it might have swayed me. For those that want three pedals, the GTS is the clear choice (over the turbo).
