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I own an 992 C4S MT coupe. I'd like your input on the ultimate two Porsche garage, preferably 911s. I picked up my C4S last month and it's far exceeded my expectations, except the interior did not come out as I expected and it's killing my OCD, so I'm going to likely sell it and I want to be thoughtful about what I replace it with as I don't want to become a car flipper. (This issue, if curious, is I didn't realize the "free" Chalk deviated stitching did not carry throughout the whole car. So the stitching on like $5K of extended leather upgrades (leather dash, door panels, steering tunnel, etc.) is black.)
I have space and budget for two 911s in addition to my wife's X3 (which we share for family hauling duties). I'd like one more as a DD and one more of a weekend/special car which would likely only see track days 3-4x per year. I have a 3 year old son and my wife is expecting our second so Cabs and Targas are probably out of the running for DD because I will need a top tether for booster seats for next 4+ years.
The daily drivers options:
1) C4GTS coupe -- Problem is, my build is only $15K below my TT build, but what I like about the GTS is it's available with a MT. If I could only have one car, this would probably be my pick, as it checks the most boxes (MT, reasonably fast, enthusiast spec, etc.)
2) Turbo coupe -- Seems like the ultimate DD. I've never owned a PDK car and worry it would be boring. And I worry about the "turbo s***ty" complex.
3) Turbo S coupe -- I don't really want center-locks or PDCC or PCCB, so it's like $30K more for $20K of options I don't want and would rather apply to a better "fun" car. But it's the "king of the road, and my "nothing but the best mindset" might not rest until I own one.
The fun car options:
4) GT3 (wing or touring) with MT -- My wife says Touring with sofas if I expert her to ride / be seen in it. My heart and 3 year old says wing with the carbon buckets (even though apparently booster seats aren't allowed in them) though I expect that will get driven the least of all the options here. I am "next on the list" for a GT3 Touring (at one dealership) and a wing GT3 (at another dealership), both with $35K ADMs, which I'm fine paying to spec the car.
5) 718 Spyder -- I'd like a convertible, and this is my favorite convertible. I think it's the most beautiful Porsche, but I worry it will be underpowered vs the 992s, and since I can afford and obtain a GT3 it feels like a compromise.
6) 993 Turbo -- This was my "dream car" when I was a teenager. I also think it would be kind of cool to have matching Guards Red 992 and 993 Turbos parked side-by-side in the garage.
My lead contender options are:
A) 992 Turbo and 992 GT3
B) 992 Turbo and 993 Turbo
C) 992 TTS + Spyder
D) Some other combo? (e.g., Targa + Touring)
Last edited by wintershade; Aug 9, 2021 at 10:25 PM.
I have an air-cooled ‘87 Carrera currently, and will be taking delivery of a manual 992 C4S Coupe this week. For me, this is the perfect combo. The ‘87 is an analog masterpiece, and an entirely different experience than any of the other more modern variations on your list. I’m hoping my 911 dream is satisfied once I add the 992 this week (though there is still a small part of me that wants to add a 993 at some point
All good options. I'm also a big fan of the Spyder. I agree completely with your thought process. The 911 alone doesn't quite cover ALL the bases.
I'm currently driving a 993 widebody+ 992C2S and will trading the C2S for a 992TTS in November.
I like having the NA version of the 993 to contrast more clearly with the 992, but the 993TT is still an awesome car. Can't go wrong either way. There is a feel to those old cars that new cars cannot replicate, particularly in the steering.
Having an air cooled and water cooled 911 is the best of both worlds, IMO, and really cements how incredible these cars have been over the years. I've been extremely happy.
The Spyder is really special. Especially the 718 generation.
Agreed. C is the winner of those 3. It’s also nice to have something where the top comes off. The 718 Spyder is also a very different experience than the 911.
Re A. Owning two 992s wouldn’t be as interesting as you’d think. The TTS would be considerably faster on the street than the GT3 and much more comfortable.
Re B. 993 Turbos fetch real money. They’re not particularly light (heavier than the 996s) and by modern standards, like most fast 90s cars, feel slow compared to something contemporary. You’d have to really love it and want it out of nostalgia.
Thanks for the input so far. Yes, I’d like to cover a wide range of experiences.
I could make a three car combo like a lightly optioned 992 C4, Spyder, and 964 or NB 993 fit within my budget and get me modern PDK, a GT convertible, and an air cooled car to restomod as budget allows, but parking would be cramped and I struggle with the idea of “settling.”
Part of the allure of the 992 Turbo is the high probability that it will be the last ICE turbo. That plus the last AC turbo would be a compelling combo. It feels like there is another NA MT Spyder coming before they’re gone.
I was *this* close to buying a 718 Spyder. Then the gearing thing came onto my radar. Knowing me, I won't be happy with a nerfed car, so I'd need to get the shark works regearing done for a small fortune, putting that car well into 911 cab territory, so 911 cab it is. Yes, 718 is more fun to drive in a few ways, but the gearing would bother me forever.
Agreed. C is the winner of those 3. It’s also nice to have something where the top comes off. The 718 Spyder is also a very different experience than the 911.
Re A. Owning two 992s wouldn’t be as interesting as you’d think. The TTS would be considerably faster on the street than the GT3 and much more comfortable.
Re B. 993 Turbos fetch real money. They’re not particularly light (heavier than the 996s) and by modern standards, like most fast 90s cars, feel slow compared to something contemporary. You’d have to really love it and want it out of nostalgia.
I’d hesitate to call it nostalgia. Those old cars, when properly sorted, drive incredibly well. They are fun as hell to blast around town and can provide a sensory overload at street legal speeds with steering that can’t be replicated. The absolute limits and capability of the new cars are mind boggling, but it can be challenging to really “wake” the new cars up. Again, having both really covers the bases there. Of course everyone has different priorities and owning an older car comes with older car problems - a lot of people don’t like dealing with that and I get it, though older Porsches are surprisingly reliable (probably less problematic than a post-COVID 992, frankly).
Originally Posted by wintershade
Thanks for the input so far. Yes, I’d like to cover a wide range of experiences.
I could make a three car combo like a lightly optioned 992 C4, Spyder, and 964 or NB 993 fit within my budget and get me modern PDK, a GT convertible, and an air cooled car to restomod as budget allows, but parking would be cramped and I struggle with the idea of “settling.”
Part of the allure of the 992 Turbo is the high probability that it will be the last ICE turbo. That plus the last AC turbo would be a compelling combo. It feels like there is another NA MT Spyder coming before they’re gone.
The 992 TTS is basically a Carrera S taken to “11”. It’s not a flabby grand tourer, if anything it’s *more* of a sports car. TT vs TTS is a drawn out argument. It really comes down to your build and which car makes the most sense. When in doubt - just get the TTS.
As far as the NB 993 is concerned - I wouldn’t call it settling. I effectively resto-modded my 993 C4S into a RWD widebody RS homage and it’s been a really fun process and the end result is awesome to drive. It’s all about having fun and if you have a good air cooled shop, there is little downside (other than a sh** ton of money spent).
Posting my car because I’m like a annoying new father with this thing, haha
Yeah, I guess the question really comes down to the combo of a 992 + aircooled, mid-engine, or GT car. I suppose the dual Turbos would be the most "usable" (i.e., both have backseats to brings kids around and could be driven year-round), the Spyder offers open-roof summer hedonism, and the GT3 is likely to be an underutilized track toy (where I'm sure the TT would perform quite well anyhow).
I think the Spyder gearing issue is (likely) overblown (I say likely, as I've not owned one). It's not like I only shift my 911 at redline when driving around town.
I kind of fancy the notion of eventually owning an example of every 911 generation. So maybe that's where we start... a 911 Turbo collection.
My wife's vote, for what it's worth... was GT3 Touring and a Panamara Turbo Sport Turismo.
Last edited by wintershade; Aug 9, 2021 at 06:01 PM.
I think the Spyder gearing issue is (likely) overblown (I say likely, as I've not owned one). It's not like I only shift my 911 at redline when driving around town.
the issue is the gears are too tall. it's not that you might only shift at redline, you'll never even see redline in this thing. he spends the entire video in 3rd in the canyon. you're basically never going above 3rd in normal driving.
the issue is the gears are too tall. it's not that you might only shift at redline, you'll never even see redline in this thing. he spends the entire video in 3rd in the canyon. you're basically never going above 3rd in normal driving.
And would the driver have ever shifted into 4th in a GT3 with a 9K redline? (Not to derail my own thread, but it is relevant I suppose) as I'd order the Spyder or GT3 with three pedals.
Last edited by wintershade; Aug 9, 2021 at 06:09 PM.
And would the driver have ever shifted into 4th in a GT3 with a 9K redline?
no idea. this gearing issue has kinda been picked up and agreed upon in general as an intentional nerfing of the 718 to avoid cannibalizing 911 sales. it may never bother you, but it kept me from one.
no idea. this gearing issue has kinda been picked up and agreed upon in general as an intentional nerfing of the 718 to avoid cannibalizing 911 sales. it may never bother you, but it kept me from one.
I had a 981 GT4 and it was a legit complaint with that car. Not sure I’d call it a dealbreaker, but it was a negative.
I had a 981 GT4 and it was a legit complaint with that car. Not sure I’d call it a dealbreaker, but it was a negative.
right; that more or less sums up my understanding. the issue for me is that it's intentional. i don't mind an incidental negative trade off - esp in a sports car; but to have the gears be intentionally suboptimal - in a sports car - dealbreaker. i don't mind modding and could fix it with shark werks kit, but it's $$.
Best two 911 combo?
