Russian Mafia

Isn’t it nice when actual data dispels confirmation bias?

phila12180

Then with that logic why not a turbo S or GT3. We all have to draw a line somewhere.

rk-d

I'm getting a Turbo S

That being said - Relative to the "base" Carrera, I'd consider the Carrera S a trim level and the Turbo and GT3 as different models, albeit 911s.

I posted elsewhere - I ran into this trim level issue when building out a "base" Turbo and ended up moving to a TTS.

I'm not arguing this as a reason for other people to do the same - it's just a hang up that I have. It's not necessarily a logical thing, either -- none of this Porsche stuff is all that logical.

phaser

Exactly!
There is no way a rational person with a modicum of knowledge about this stuff can look at that comparative plot display and conclude that the Base model is "more responsive", that is just flatly ridiculous. "Turbo lag", inertia, etc., all BS here to justify the cost savings of an entry level model. There is a 6 MPH trap speed differential between the two levels (119 vs 125) which is quite significant and is the best evidence of the the S being a far superior street performer. Empirical data crushes the "feel" or SOTP meter.

phaser

Torque spike. Common to see this configuration as tuning gets more aggressive.

Gentian21

I can't get my head around the assertion that the S is too fast for the street, but the base isn't. There's a 0.4 second difference in 0-60 times between the two, and I think about the same for the quarter mile. Neither can can be exploited on public roads, but that is true for Corvettes, virtually all high end sports cars (Audi R8, Aston Martin, and the like) and even V8 Mustangs and Camaros. For those who don't track their cars, the thrill of driving these cars isn't pushing them to their limits, but the feel of the car as it is accelerating to reasonable speeds, cornering and braking. The S does these things a little better than the base, but we're talking about a nuance here, and not a quantum difference. I'd respect the argument more if someone asserts that a 992 is too much car for the street, but a Miata or Subaru BRZ isn't. With the latter, you can redline them on city streets (for a few seconds) and with the former, you just can't. I got the S because I wanted a manual, and I think I'm going to enjoy owning the car because it is so immensely capable-- but there is nothing in that sentiment that suggests a base isn't a wonderful car. So, either choice is ok depending on your wants and budget, but just don't make the mistake of concluding that an S can't be fully enjoyed on the road, but a base can.

hcamp19

I just wanted the "S" badging on the car!

Hormazd Dalal

LOL. I deleted all badging on my S.

Bluehighways

But did you paint the Brake Calipers black?

Hormazd Dalal

LOL. I've always aftermarket painted calipers. Have racing yellow on my BMW and had red on the previous car. I have red belts chrono dial and tach and love red calipers.

Harris27

I'd just picked up my C2 a few days ago. The S is indeed a quicker car, and allows you more goodies like the manual transmission (which I wouldn't have gotten anyway for my every day driver) and real axle steering. and sport active suspension etc.

I will say this: if you are not tracking and/or want options that the C2 can't give you, then the C2 is plenty fast and fun. But if you want the superior car in terms of performance, the S still is the way to go. I've driven both, and I think on an every day basis, you won't feel an "oh my God" difference. The difference is there, but subtle unless you're pushing it to the limits.

I went for the base because I was still able to load the car out with unnecessary options that I'd wanted for my viewing pleasure like PCCBs, sport design kit, sports exhaust, sport chrono, seats etc.

Thinking back, the only thing that bothers me about the base is the inability to grab the package that lowers it 10mm. I think the 10mm makes all the difference in looks in the way the car sits. So you'll have to live with a little bit more wheel gap with the base.

Moral of the story- don't let bragging rights deter you from getting the base C2. It's your build, and your car! It'll be awesome. regardless of C2 or C2S.

politeperson

I have used my C2 992 every day this month on a mix of town and country roads.
I have been able to use full throttle once because it is so fast. Yes, only once.
4 wheel drive wouldn't help me- I have something in front!"
Therefore at no point have I thought "I wish I had spent an extra £15k on a C2S"
I am however please I have an extra £15k in my bank account.
I definitely have not thought "I wish I had spent an extra £100,000 on a Turbo".
These guys have been putting the C2 up against the 503 bhp 2021 M4 Competition and there is nothing in it.
These guys put the C2 against the more powerful Corvette and GT500 amd there is nothing in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CrkDAFgLTU

It gets to the point where traction dictates everything, not power.
Its how much grip you have between the tire and the road.
I have not even been able to lose any C2/C2S /Turbo dick wagging competitions either because all the pubs and bars are shut over here!
Win win win!

phila12180

I totally agree with you and that is why I am waiting on a C2 with a June delivery date.

Carlo_Carrera

Not that I really care about any of this but the chart starts at 2500 RPM. There is a lot of street driving done below 2500 RPM so that maybe the area where folk's SOTP feels the Base responding better.

Gentian21

There's no question about it. The base is a fantastic car, and no one "needs" the extra power of the S on the street. There is a case to be made for the S off the race track, though. The availability of the manual transmission was the major factor driving me to the S, but the sport suspension, rear wheel steering, better brakes and the option of having greater power and torque at my disposal compelled my decision, too. The money difference between the base and the S is not huge in percentage terms, and a lot of that differential is returned to you upon resale anyway. So, I figured that as long as I am buying something that is designed for ultra-high performance, I might as well extract from the car the full potential of what its designers have on offer. Of course it's true that there will be few occasions on public roads where I would ever say "I'm so glad I don't have a base Carrera"-- but even the 996, and 997, let alone the 991 had more power than anyone needed for street driving. The pleasure of owning a Porsche isn't a function of what the car is capable of at its limits, but more about how the car feels and handles on the way to those limits. Again, I'm not diminishing the base Carrera, because it outperforms almost any car that is mass produced in the world. But if the difference between the base and the S is $15,000, and if (say) half of that difference is returned to you upon resale, then the cost of the S is about $7500. Over a five year ownership span, that means that the premium required to drive the S every day is about $1500 a year-- for me, a compelling rationale.