smiles11

Just because someone decides to track their car, doesn’t mean that someone is thrashing their car. It’s about the experience & exploring the cars potential. I’m sure there are exceptions with guys trying to push 10/10ths in their C2S (lol), but for the majority of owners; not the case. I want to hit 150mph in a safe environment & work an apex. It’s not necessary to thrash my cars powertrain to do that.

markchristenson

This.

aggie57

This. I've owned track cars and one reason I track my daily 911 is because it's cheaper.

Glerald

Great thread. I am currently enrolled at PCA DE at New Orleans Motorsport park (https://www.pca.org/event/2020-12-05...torsports-park) feb 21 & 22. This is my first track experience and I am taking my 992S down there with a friend who tracks his C8. The local PCA loaned me a helmet and the NOLA park is very flat and safe with very few guard rails etc. I will have an instructor in car and don’t intend to go crazy. I am debating insurance and will almost certainly get it for peace of mind. I can’t imagine getting into too much trouble here as a green as hell newbie. I am looking forward to seeing my car’s abilities off public roads and with out fear of law enforcement. Honestly it is one of the reasons I chose S over the base. Plus I am going to eat like a king in NOLA! Anybody run on this track?

https://www.nolamotor.com/the-park?h...2-b7911c06b86f

ipse dixit

Many times, for better or worse, insurance is less for what you do to the car, and more often what another driver does to your car.

But that said, you have right attitude! Enjoy the weekend.

Bluehighways

When I got my SCCA Competition License they made it very clear at the outset; It’s not a question of “if” it’s truly just a question of “when” and “how often” you become involved in an “incident”. In many cases the occasion will not be of your doing.

So, I would recommend, if you can’t walk away from an “incident” that has converted the car you were driving into a rather compact and crumpled structure of metal that can not be saved, you’re driving the wrong car and/or engaged in the wrong sport.

991.1 Guy

SCCA competition is totally different than participating in HPDE events. You, of all people, should know that.

Bluehighways

LOL . . . . You're funny! Just keep telling yourself that.

Quadcammer

Is this an inside joke or are you seriously trying to argue otherwise.

The incidence of car to car contact in the green/yellow/blue run groups at PCA DEs is damn near zero. You have, in the vast majority of cases, instructors in both cars. Additionally, most porsche owners are pretty protective over their cars and the average DE participant at a PCA event is 45 years old or more, reasonably intelligent, financially successful. While there may be a few bad apples, red misters, or overall dopes, they get weeded out pretty fast by instructors.

Running extended or open passing in a black/red or advanced event is different. But generally, most people in those groups know each other, know who to avoid, know who can take a late or tight pass without tracking out into your fender and so on.

Now, people go off track in white/red/black....again hardly in blue green. And you know, thats part of the experience because if you want to learn, sometimes you have to push the car, but again, in DE, that hardly ever results in car to car contact.

Bottom line, if you are a reasonable person with a reasonable degree of self preservation, you and your car will be 100% fine doing DEs.

Bluehighways

Taking your car on a Track is playing a fun and exciting game. But it is a game of Russian Roulette. For some reason you want to argue about how many bullets are in the gun? Good grief!

Glerald

As I stated I am attending as a first time tracker at PCA DE and I will have an instructor in car with me and on a track that is flat and very few if any guard rails (see my previous post with link). I am not trying to break any track records and really just interested in seeing my dream car do what it was intended to do (with a large dose of caution). As to Russian roulette, though I have never tracked a car, one could say the same thing about just pulling out of the driveway of my house.

dasams

my first track day was at ThunderHill with a single guard rail along pit row. I drove at 7/10s and had a blast. I followed up with a poorly run track day at Sonoma and saw two guys hit walls about 10 min apart. In each case, they put a wheel off into the grass and then they were gone. All of my PCA and Hooked On Driving events were safe and well run. Highly recommend.

Quadcammer

as noted above, driving down the average highway is more likely to result in vehicular damage or injury than a green student at a track day.

drcollie

I will respectfully disagree with that. I've been Instructing since 1996, that's twenty-five years. I have instructed for BMWCCA, PCA, NASA, Audi, Mazda, Aston Martin Club and FATT @ Summit Point, even as a paid instructor for the AMG Experience for Mercedes and clubs I have forgotten about. Hundreds of cars, hundred of right seat hours. Just what I have seen and done over the years:

* Crashed out twice with students. the worst was in 2001 when three of my ribs were broken as we impacted the tree line and the car imbedded. The Student did everything wrong and panicked and would not listen. His car was totaled and fuel lines ruptured, I thought we were going to burn (thankfully not). That was painful for several weeks afterwards.
* Second crash was a "Green" first-time student newbie in a Viper that thought he was Mario Andretti. No injuries on that one, but his car was pretty smashed up.
* Put out two small car fires as first to roll up on the incidents where the students flipped the cars.
* Extracted three different drivers from roll overs and their instructors It's amazing how flat a roof can go and people still crawl out of the car uninjured
* Seen so much bent sheet metal I stopped taking photos of it years ago.
* Laughed at convertible drivers who won't put the top down and then watch their rollover protection systems activate and blow out their back windows.
* My favorite line to students after their off-track incidents "At what point did you feel you ran out of talent?"

And on and on and on. I stopped doing most instructing a few years ago as incidents when Instructors were getting killed in track incidents - these are kept very quiet when it happens but they DO happen. Street cars are not race cars, there is no cage, no 6- point, no racing shell seat. Cars have become very fast. Wrecks can be big and high speed wrecks kill the people in the car. Many of the long time Instructor cadre got out of it due to that, at the end of the day we are ride-alongs in the right seat at the mercy of the driver.

I speak from experience. Not assumption. You can deny my experience if you want, but facts are facts.

Track days are fun. Do them. Realize there is risk. Manage that risk.

As a student know that YOU are responsible for the life of the Instructor sitting next to you and respect that aspect more than anything else. Keep it sane and stay in control of your vehicle, don't drive over your head. If you can't afford an out-of-pocket collision repair, buy track insurance. Warranty does NOT cover many of the things at the track that can happen. Your Porsche is not a magic racing machine, if you think it is, I don't want to right seat with you because now you are a hazard. Likewise if you think you are an expert driver and can't leave your ego at the front gate, I don't want to be in your car, please let your instructor know this ahead of time so he/she can decide if we want to accept the risk. Attitude is key as a student. Come willing to learn and realize you have a lot to learn and it will be a good day for all.

- Duane Collie (look me up, my instructing cred goes back to the early days on the internet)







.

Glerald

As a student know that YOU are responsible for the life of the Instructor sitting next to you and respect that aspect more than anything else. Keep it sane and stay in control of your vehicle, don't drive over your head. If you can't afford an out-of-pocket collision repair, buy track insurance. Warranty does NOT cover many of the things at the track that can happen. Your Porsche is not a magic racing machine, if you think it is, I don't want to right seat with you because now you are a hazard. Likewise if you think you are an expert driver and can't leave your ego at the front gate, I don't want to be your car. Attitude is key as a student. Come willing to learn and realize you have a lot to learn and it will be a good day for all.

Thanks. I will take that advice gladly.