992s vs base (again)
10-17-2020 | 02:08 AM
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992s vs base (again)
Here it is: I am in my late 50s and have the opportunity to buy my dream car, a 911. My wife has blessed thIs purchase. I have a budget of approximately 130k. It will be a daily driver in Memphis and I will keep it for quite some time and will certainly be the only 911 I ever purchase. I have never tracked a car but a good friend tracks his non-Porsche cars and says I will love it. I have given local dealer $2500 to be at top of allocation list in mid-November. By that time I have to decide base or S. I can afford the configuration I want in either model minus a few luxury options such as leather package if I get the S (not getting MT, RAS, PASM or PDCC). My question is this: what are opinions re long term ownership? Do you think that after a period of time I will wish I had just gotten S? I have watched every video and read previous discussions so many times I can lip sync them. I am torn. Thoughts re long term buyer’s regret? Thanks and forgive me for starting ANOTHER base vs S thread.
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10-17-2020, 02:32 PM
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Pretty much the only reason in my view to get an S over the base is if you want MT, RAS, SPASM, PDCC or PTV+ (PTV+ is available on the C4, not the C2)....all of which (except PTV+) are features the OP has said he doesn't want. The bigger brakes on the S are completely unnecessary unless you're tracking the car (not DEs...actual competitive events), and the extra HP is also overkill on the street. A base does 0-60 around 3.5 seconds, the quarter in about 11.5; an S shaves those numbers to around 3.0 and 11 flat. Aside from needing/wanting bragging rights that you have the faster 911, the power difference is moot on the street in any driving situation save stoplight drags. Even then, the base more than holds it's own; I'm sure the C8 corvette driver that I did a 0-60+ run with recently was a little miffed that the 992 was door-to-door with him, and would have been shocked to learn that he was running against a debadged base, not an S. (BTW, I debadged to make the car's rear end cleaner, not to fool C8 or other drivers.)
In previous generation 911s, there were body differences that created a visible pecking order. That's all gone, as all 992s look exactly the same in stock form, and all can be equipped with Sport Design bits and Aerokit.
For MY 2020 there were far more C2s and C4s cars built than base, in a large part due to the fact the base cars came to market many months after the S. The S was pretty much universally declared "brilliant" and there were hundreds - maybe thousands - of reviews all over the internet. By the time the Base was launched, the "reviewer" pack had mostly moved on to the lastest shiny automotive object, and until very recently you had to look hard to find a Base review, For those that did actually swing back and review the Base, the consensus is the Base is equally brilliant, and in some cases, journalists of high repute actually prefer it over the S. The days of the S being the "superior" car, either objectively or subjectively, have ended with the 992.
In terms of resale, what's happened in the past with 911s may not be a reliable predictor of how the used market will evolve. With all cars looking the same, and real-world performance differences on the street being essentially moot, paying extra for a used S versus a Base may not be perceived as necessary. With performance differences not as important as in the past, the value of used 911s will hinge on mileage, condition, and rarity/exclusivity. Currently, the majority of 992s out there are Ss, with fewer base C2s and astonishingly few C4s (https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1193...numbers-3.html). It's an unknown - but unlikely - that this model split will hold subsequent production years, but a case could be made that the 2020 base models - which look the same and are only marginally slower - might hold their value better than the Ss. If the market sentiment continues its shift away from the mindset with previous-generation 911s that a Base car isn't a very satisfying 911, Base models in good condition with great service histories and decently optioned could become highly sought-after used cars at a relative bargain price compared to an S.
I see two camps on Rennlist in the S versus Base debate: those who have driven both Base and S versions long enough to develop informed opinions, and those who just have opinions. Like the few reviewers who have meaningful seat time in both and came away with highly favorable impressions of the Base, so it goes with us 911 masses. There are exceptions, but just based on the number of cars on the road, a high percentage of 992 S owners here and in the wild have likely never driven a base car, and certainly not a unicorn such as a C4. To the OP, there's no substitute for driving a Base and an S and coming to your own conclusions. If that's not possible, give extra credibility points to reviewers and owners that actually have meaningful seat time in a car other than an S.
In previous generation 911s, there were body differences that created a visible pecking order. That's all gone, as all 992s look exactly the same in stock form, and all can be equipped with Sport Design bits and Aerokit.
For MY 2020 there were far more C2s and C4s cars built than base, in a large part due to the fact the base cars came to market many months after the S. The S was pretty much universally declared "brilliant" and there were hundreds - maybe thousands - of reviews all over the internet. By the time the Base was launched, the "reviewer" pack had mostly moved on to the lastest shiny automotive object, and until very recently you had to look hard to find a Base review, For those that did actually swing back and review the Base, the consensus is the Base is equally brilliant, and in some cases, journalists of high repute actually prefer it over the S. The days of the S being the "superior" car, either objectively or subjectively, have ended with the 992.
In terms of resale, what's happened in the past with 911s may not be a reliable predictor of how the used market will evolve. With all cars looking the same, and real-world performance differences on the street being essentially moot, paying extra for a used S versus a Base may not be perceived as necessary. With performance differences not as important as in the past, the value of used 911s will hinge on mileage, condition, and rarity/exclusivity. Currently, the majority of 992s out there are Ss, with fewer base C2s and astonishingly few C4s (https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1193...numbers-3.html). It's an unknown - but unlikely - that this model split will hold subsequent production years, but a case could be made that the 2020 base models - which look the same and are only marginally slower - might hold their value better than the Ss. If the market sentiment continues its shift away from the mindset with previous-generation 911s that a Base car isn't a very satisfying 911, Base models in good condition with great service histories and decently optioned could become highly sought-after used cars at a relative bargain price compared to an S.
I see two camps on Rennlist in the S versus Base debate: those who have driven both Base and S versions long enough to develop informed opinions, and those who just have opinions. Like the few reviewers who have meaningful seat time in both and came away with highly favorable impressions of the Base, so it goes with us 911 masses. There are exceptions, but just based on the number of cars on the road, a high percentage of 992 S owners here and in the wild have likely never driven a base car, and certainly not a unicorn such as a C4. To the OP, there's no substitute for driving a Base and an S and coming to your own conclusions. If that's not possible, give extra credibility points to reviewers and owners that actually have meaningful seat time in a car other than an S.
10-17-2020 | 02:16 AM
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This is a personal decision.
But I will say this.
Assuming money is not a determinative factor (such as with you), more people who buy the base regret their decision in not getting an S than the other way around.
Not all, just more on average.
But I will say this.
Assuming money is not a determinative factor (such as with you), more people who buy the base regret their decision in not getting an S than the other way around.
Not all, just more on average.
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10-17-2020 | 02:21 AM
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In either car, i would get Sport Chrono, for the simple fact that you can simply turn a dial to turn off the Auto Stop/Start, instead of waiting for the PCM to spool up the widget. RAS is great if you live in a city, but that will mean a "S". If it's your last and only 911, might as well pony up for the "S", and you will never have to worry about "shoulda".
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BudFox6 (10-26-2020)
10-17-2020 | 02:33 AM
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10-17-2020 | 02:47 AM
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There are people here who will argue both ways with equal conviction. My story is that my first 911 was a base 997. After 5 months i traded it on a new 997 S, which I owned for 5 years. When it came time to buy a 992 I wanted a manual so the choice was made for me but i don't regret it at all. Like you i kept it under $130k list and avoided some expensive options like RAS, FAL, and leather. After 3 months I wouldn’t do different, even if manual was available in the base. And yes, you have to take it out on the track. These cars are too fast to enjoy fully on the road.
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10-17-2020 | 03:18 AM
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In either car, i would get Sport Chrono, for the simple fact that you can simply turn a dial to turn off the Auto Stop/Start, instead of waiting for the PCM to spool up the widget. RAS is great if you live in a city, but that will mean a "S". If it's your last and only 911, might as well pony up for the "S", and you will never have to worry about "shoulda".
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sapman (12-13-2021)
10-17-2020 | 03:39 AM
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My two cents goes like this: Use the Porsche configuration web site. Start with an S and then option it as you would like. If you’re under budget when you’re happy with the build, then that’s the car for you. OTOH if you’re now over your budget, start over with a base 911 and recreate your vision. You may well find that you now have what you want and may even have some spending money left over for a few things you originally thought you didn’t need when you created your S build. If you’re concerned about advertising that it’s not an S, just use the $0.00 option to delete that logo from the rear bumper. No one will be the wiser, nor will they care.
In the interest of truth and honesty, I ordered an S. But if I’d had to choose between 18 way seats with a leather interior and an S, the seats and the leather would have been ordered on a base 911 plus a few more things as well. The difference in the base price between the two can go a long, long way.
In the interest of truth and honesty, I ordered an S. But if I’d had to choose between 18 way seats with a leather interior and an S, the seats and the leather would have been ordered on a base 911 plus a few more things as well. The difference in the base price between the two can go a long, long way.
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10-17-2020 | 08:03 AM
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I had a 2S 992 and it didn’t really do it for me (ended up with a GT4). However few weeKs ago went to a Porsche experience centre and on the track everyone agreed the base C2 was the most fun to drive over a 4S and a 2S - light and lively. I don’t think you’re gonna notice the few 10ths second difference 0-60 but the bigger disc rotors on the S do look cool. Get what you want rather than what you think sensible.
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10-17-2020 | 08:09 AM
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I would agree with the other posts, if this is your only 911 and you are going to keep it awhile. Go with the S. you can spec it nicely for 130, nothing fancy but the nice basics. Go with the S....
10-17-2020 | 08:33 AM
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The S is objectively superior. Some people prefer the feel of the base car. I suspect they are a significant minority.
Drive both and decide. It's really pretty simple. No one can predict what your subjective preference will be between the two.
If you want a poll of what people think, I'm fairly certain the S/4S will win out - just as much because the vast majority of people in here have an S/4S.
Drive both and decide. It's really pretty simple. No one can predict what your subjective preference will be between the two.
If you want a poll of what people think, I'm fairly certain the S/4S will win out - just as much because the vast majority of people in here have an S/4S.
10-17-2020 | 08:41 AM
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Since you are asking about it , then you have to get the S ,
it is all in our head ,
we like to have the best even if we don't need it or can't use it .. but that is ok , we are humans
buy the S and never look back
it is all in our head ,
we like to have the best even if we don't need it or can't use it .. but that is ok , we are humans
buy the S and never look back
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10-17-2020 | 08:46 AM
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The base 911 is not really base in the sense it’s a stripped down car. With that said, if you consider resale, there’s a reason I mention this, the S holds its value a little better over time since there is more demand. The unfortunate thing is that no matter which Porsche you buy, once you get the bug, you’re always chasing the nextPorsche hehe.
I also think you should be careful specing the base 911. I think a lot of people consider it the purist 911 (like the T). So you see quite a few base 911s without many options. I think if you are selling two 911 for the same price, one is an S with fewer options and the other is base but loaded, most will choose the S. Maybe people also don’t buy loaded 911s because it’s a difficult rung to reach so trying to keep costs down.
I also think you should be careful specing the base 911. I think a lot of people consider it the purist 911 (like the T). So you see quite a few base 911s without many options. I think if you are selling two 911 for the same price, one is an S with fewer options and the other is base but loaded, most will choose the S. Maybe people also don’t buy loaded 911s because it’s a difficult rung to reach so trying to keep costs down.
Last edited by c1pher; 10-17-2020 at 08:50 AM.
10-17-2020 | 09:09 AM
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If your limit is $130K WITH discount, you can get a pretty well speced S 
Considering this is such a big purchase, I recommend spending a few thousand more to get an S how you want. $130K is too much to compromise for a few thousand dollars.
If you must keep it to $130K... it all depends on how much you value options vs performance. Personally, some options like full leather are non-negotiable to me on a car this expensive, which is tough with an S.
Considering this is such a big purchase, I recommend spending a few thousand more to get an S how you want. $130K is too much to compromise for a few thousand dollars.
If you must keep it to $130K... it all depends on how much you value options vs performance. Personally, some options like full leather are non-negotiable to me on a car this expensive, which is tough with an S.
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Traind (11-12-2020)
10-17-2020 | 10:22 AM
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A truly subjective choice. I have a C2S, but only because of the MT. The base is a touch livelier due to the smaller turbos and rides a bit better because of the wheels/tires, both of which are plusses for a DD. One other factor when looking at your budget: PPF. A quality job is at least $3K, likely higher, and would be a must on that DD. In the end, get the one that speaks to you. The pain of the cost will fade with time, unlike that option you didn't get and annoys you every time you (don't) see it . . .
10-17-2020 | 10:26 AM
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If your limit is $130K WITH discount, you can get a pretty well speced S
Considering this is such a big purchase, I recommend spending a few thousand more to get an S how you want. $130K is too much to compromise for a few thousand dollars.
If you must keep it to $130K... it all depends on how much you value options vs performance. Personally, some options like full leather are non-negotiable to me on a car this expensive, which is tough with an S.
Considering this is such a big purchase, I recommend spending a few thousand more to get an S how you want. $130K is too much to compromise for a few thousand dollars.
If you must keep it to $130K... it all depends on how much you value options vs performance. Personally, some options like full leather are non-negotiable to me on a car this expensive, which is tough with an S.
Last edited by Glerald; 10-17-2020 at 10:43 AM.